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FenderJazz
March 7th, 2011, 06:29 PM
Well, since the contest topic that already exists is strictly for submissions and not contest discussion in general though it's usually good to put all those in one place, I am putting this here.

That contest is INCREDIBLY SHADY.

Why's that? Well, look at the rules. Notice one of them says you can't put any tag identifying it as your own on there. Now notice the one that orders you to put Combatsig's tag on it instead, or it won't be counted. See where I'm going with this?

As an artist, even if not one of the visual persuasion, I know it is a VERY good idea to put your name on stuff so it can be identified as yours. This is sadly the result of there being many thieves in our culture who'll gladly take your work and pass it as their own. Many get away with it too. Thus seeing an order to put someone else's name on my work would tip off the alarm bells.

Other artists agree with me. Explained the contest to a few of them and didn't have to go into detail about what Suba and Combatsigs have done in the past for them to declare that they wouldn't enter such a contest even if their life depended on it.

So yes, they want your artwork. They've realized that all they can do is use a few texture paintbrushes and borders on some press release material to create a large, mediocre, sometimes unreadable imagse and want free replacements. Surprised they don't spam the bevel tool, honestly. They've realized that just about everyone and their mother in this community can be something of equal quality or better, yet are afraid to admit it. But they'll gladly host a contest and use every half decent submission sent into it, without giving credit to the original creators since they already have their logo slapped on it...so it looks like it's theirs when it's not.

It doesn't help that Combatsigs is the most unprofessional company (if you can call them that) that I've ever seen. They clearly don't understand, or at least didn't understand, the concept of working closely with their new partner (Suba Game) and not jumping ahead. As in, don't announce you have an official partnership before Suba is ready to announce it. Stuff like that. Also, keep all signature testing in a separate topic. I saw quite a few scattered posts back when they were still trying to make them work, and while they have my pity for having to mess with this leaves-much-to-be-desired forum system, they could've at least not spammed everyone else's stuff with them. Derailing those topics, if you will.


Now, a signature contest is a good idea, an idea I like. It's those two rules that I have an extreme problem with. Let people make and submit stuff and THEN ask if they want to hand over their property to you to use.

I HIGHLY recommend that Suba and Combatsigs rethink those conditions a bit, and until then I HIGHLY recommend that players don't enter. It's a scam, a trap, call it what you will. Your artwork, even if all you can do is scribbles in MSPaint, is worth far more than that. Especially since there's no guarantee that they won't claim every submission as theirs, including ones that didn't technically get paid for via Suba Points.

Keep in mind, I'm not aiming to really offend anyone in this topic. I'm just stating some facts, and everyone involved should feel totally unrestrained in making their counterarguments.



tl;dr: Anyone with any artistic experience and/or training has enough common sense to not enter a contest that makes them practically beg someone to steal their artwork.

Xjmas
March 7th, 2011, 07:02 PM
Here Here i second thy notion. What a riveting speech!

Havok
March 7th, 2011, 07:37 PM
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y22/bindin/punitBgr.jpg

do i win?

VladTheImplier
March 7th, 2011, 07:37 PM
But technically you are selling your artwork for credits, heh :V

FenderJazz
March 7th, 2011, 07:43 PM
But technically there's nothing stopping them from taking the ones that don't win credits too.

If they seriously want to keep those rules, they need to add a disclaimer in it clearly saying that all submissions will belong to Suba/Combatsigs, and/or how many and which submissions will be added to their catalog. That way people know exactly what they're getting into and what their submissions will be used for. Right now it's too vague, and even if they think the fact that you have to use their logo makes it un-vague, you still have to throw in that legal stuff to prevent people from getting angry and, well, making posts like this.

Hawkies
March 7th, 2011, 08:41 PM
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y22/bindin/punitBgr.jpg

do i win?

Look out a bat with a tail is gaining on u :V

Dragonessz
March 7th, 2011, 11:42 PM
I'm a staff on combatsigs...can I join? ;) hehehehe <3 I don't mind playing for another month when I get membership ;D
But when you register for combatsigs, there is a terms of condition where it says that all submissions will belong to combatsigs. Just be careful what you submit to them, if you want it to be shared or taken, it's the risk you're willing to take. You could join just for fun and see how it goes but I wouldn't recommend to submit something you DON'T want to have rights issues all over it. Or just not care and give them free pretty pictures.

FenderJazz
March 8th, 2011, 12:00 AM
I'm a staff on combatsigs...can I join? ;) hehehehe <3 I don't mind playing for another month when I get membership ;D
But when you register for combatsigs, there is a terms of condition where it says that all submissions will belong to combatsigs. Just be careful what you submit to them, if you want it to be shared or taken, it's the risk you're willing to take. You could join just for fun and see how it goes but I wouldn't recommend to submit something you DON'T want to have rights issues all over it. Or just not care and give them free pretty pictures.
Ok, see? That's needed on Suba's contest pages as well. Needs to be clearly stated everywhere people may submit stuff for contests related to them. Saves some trouble.

Ideally, you'd state that you'd only take the top three and the staff pick, as those would be the ones that receive a form of payment. Also ideally you'll have a page on your site dedicated to contest winning sigs and give credit where it's due, and fully explain how you're gonna go about that before you announce the winners (ideally, before you even announce the contest but it's a bit late for that).

InsanityEdrill
March 8th, 2011, 12:03 AM
Or just not care and give them free pretty pictures.

Uhm,that is what the OP is against yo.

EchoSaviour
March 8th, 2011, 11:36 AM
I'm guessing this whole thread goes down to image ownership. (No need for massive walls of text to explain that issue.)

As far as I can tell from the information I have at hand it's combatsig ownership until the end of the event. But ideally it would be better if someone at combatsig can clarify the whole issue since I only have part of the picture. I can edit the postings to accommodate this info.

FenderJazz
March 8th, 2011, 11:43 AM
But...massive walls of text are fun!

And really, all they need to do is remove the bit where you -have- to brand it with their logo, or throw that disclaimer they have on their site all over the contests pages/posts here too. You've got to have all that legal stuff very clearly explained and viewable to everyone involved (not everyone goes to their site too), or it will at the very least scare people away because they are not being told everything.

EchoSaviour
March 8th, 2011, 11:47 AM
The announcement rulings now have the ownership details on it so that should clear things up

FenderJazz
March 8th, 2011, 12:04 PM
Please put it in the submissions topic too, as people may no think to double check the announcement itself for updates.

TuvokCJ
March 9th, 2011, 08:00 AM
I didn't think any wrote posts this long other than me

fender <3 we gots something in common

FenderJazz
March 9th, 2011, 11:17 AM
I didn't think any wrote posts this long other than me

fender <3 we gots something in common
Heehee!

What about Bear though? And the legendary Komidol?

WolfyLovesCookies
March 9th, 2011, 11:23 AM
Heehee!

What about Bear though? And the legendary Komidol?

Don't forget Crash's E-peen wall of text, the most exciting to read than anyone else.

VladTheImplier
March 9th, 2011, 02:26 PM
What about my one liners?

SwiftylGimol
March 9th, 2011, 03:29 PM
What if you have a picture with your little signature for your submission, and another one without. So if you win, you send the one without. Easy enough, imo.

Monkeynucleosis
March 9th, 2011, 05:52 PM
HEY! HOW ABOUTIF THEY DO STEAL IT, YOU HAVE PROOF THAT IT'S ACTUALLY YOURS BECAUSE hrm gee I dunno.... YOU HAVE THE SOURCE FILE WITH ALL THE LAYERS IN IT!! Gasp!

Just sayin' :V

FenderJazz
March 10th, 2011, 01:30 AM
Not entirely the point, sadly. How many people here that could make a decent sig could fight them hard and practically enough to get them to take it down if they were really unhappy with it? And that is only foolproof in a textbook setting.

I realize Suba is new at this and Combatsigs is new at this, and this is a very touchy issue. I'd rather see them cover every corner and prevent any problems or not do it at all.

TheRealGB
March 10th, 2011, 02:50 AM
Heehee!

What about Bear though? And the legendary Komidol?

Props to me for writing them from my iPhone too. That is a pain in the ass.

CSjosh
April 1st, 2011, 09:06 AM
Hey all,

I am the owner of combatsigs.com. I just wanted to address this issue.

Combatsigs has held many contest with sites and on our own over time, and we have every rule that we have for a reason. First off, I would like to remind you, that you do NOT HAVE to join our contest, it is open, no one is forced, and we are giving prizes to you, basically "buying" your work, or rewarding you for it.


As an artist, even if not one of the visual persuasion, I know it is a VERY good idea to put your name on stuff so it can be identified as yours. This is sadly the result of there being many thieves in our culture who'll gladly take your work and pass it as their own. Many get away with it too. Thus seeing an order to put someone else's name on my work would tip off the alarm bells.

The reason we want our URL on it is so that people can NOT steal the work, and, since we are basically buying the signature from you, we do not want any personal watermarks on the signature. Now, we are not a scamming company that wants to steal work, we have our own graphic design staff to create signatures (about 10 of them) and we have no reason to want to "steal" from you.


Other artists agree with me. Explained the contest to a few of them and didn't have to go into detail about what Suba and Combatsigs have done in the past for them to declare that they wouldn't enter such a contest even if their life depended on it.

I understand that some artist believe this, but even my own staff follow by the rule that all work done for the site becomes property of the site. They volunteer there time because they LOVE doing it, not because they want credit for it, and want to become "popular" over it. Now I don't have a problem with people saying they made it, we just don't want it on the signature.



So yes, they want your artwork. They've realized that all they can do is use a few texture paintbrushes and borders on some press release material to create a large, mediocre, sometimes unreadable imagse and want free replacements. Surprised they don't spam the bevel tool, honestly. They've realized that just about everyone and their mother in this community can be something of equal quality or better, yet are afraid to admit it. But they'll gladly host a contest and use every half decent submission sent into it, without giving credit to the original creators since they already have their logo slapped on it...so it looks like it's theirs when it's not.

Now this is just not true. Take a look at our combat arms signature generator, all 140some signatures were created by our staff, and if you think that they "basically suck" then I guess it is you verse about 71,000 signatures that are being used today from our site...


It doesn't help that Combatsigs is the most unprofessional company (if you can call them that) that I've ever seen. They clearly don't understand, or at least didn't understand, the concept of working closely with their new partner (Suba Game) and not jumping ahead. As in, don't announce you have an official partnership before Suba is ready to announce it. Stuff like that. Also, keep all signature testing in a separate topic. I saw quite a few scattered posts back when they were still trying to make them work, and while they have my pity for having to mess with this leaves-much-to-be-desired forum system, they could've at least not spammed everyone else's stuff with them. Derailing those topics, if you will.

Our staff had 2 threads that we had permission from Suba staff to test in, other people were testing them in other forums, and we have no control over what other people do with our material.


Define Steal for me please
Because from what I know, when you pay someone (in credit in this case) for something, that is not stealing. Signatures that are not winners will not be used on our generator, bottom line. Your rage and flaming about how we want to steal signatures is just ridiclous and it makes you look bad as a moderator who is suppose to keep peace on the forums.

Mike Cosgrove
April 1st, 2011, 09:46 AM
Your rage and flaming about how we want to steal signatures is just ridiclous and it makes you look bad as a moderator who is suppose to keep peace on the forums.

if you think her post is "rage and flaming" you have no idea what rage and flaming is.
Seriously, your post had all these good points and then you lost it at the last sentence.

CSjosh
April 1st, 2011, 09:59 AM
Everyone's definition of raging and flaming is different, and everyone knows that. I see an attack towards someone, or a group in a negitive way is raging and/or flaming. There really is no reason for this post.

CSjosh
April 1st, 2011, 10:03 AM
Basically, the bottom line is we joined SubaGames to help the community by providing a FREE service to everyone. We did this contest to basically GIVE free credits away that you normally would pay for. We spent countless hours and money on developing our Ace Online generator, and our graphic designers spent countless hours designing. I think I have a damn good graphics staff, and if you don't like it then don't use the signatures, and don't participate in our contest. No one if forcing you to do anything.