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Viseris
May 3rd, 2014, 02:57 PM
With some testing of the Assassin class, I was able to construct this shoddily put together chart. Please chime in with your inputs on any skills of Assassin from your play experience.

If you would like to edit the Google Spreadsheets file (to adjust the values) here is the link.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HT_iljdOhhQliSNkva6spFKB_8Q-meG8gSrCf08J01o/edit?usp=sharing

Tier 1

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ylH6C7AJC-k/U2UhgN0j0yI/AAAAAAAAEJA/stwPCVYxF18/s1600/Tier+1.jpg

Tier 2

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-uNs0XhfBLXg/U2Uiacy2K_I/AAAAAAAAEJM/gL-HCUYANeA/s1600/Tier+2.jpg

Tier 3

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-0ferFJcsko0/U2Uia2TuHpI/AAAAAAAAEJU/vkmB6IQpUy4/s1600/Tier+3.jpg

Tier 4

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-TWMVNGEwPsM/U2UiaoS8FeI/AAAAAAAAEJQ/HE-gn5ryrKc/s1600/Tier+4.jpg

Tier 5

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-WGTxYJH4PUY/U2UibjDouKI/AAAAAAAAEJk/i5JhXoT3km4/s1600/Tier+5.jpg

*Attack Range on Shadow Bomb is 80-170 depending on level, I adjusted it on the spreadsheet, just too lazy to remake the image atm.

Class Notes


Evade is 32 with Alas 10 and Attack Mastery 10
Critical % is 61 with 80(A,B,C,D) Dagger +10 and Fatal Mastery 10
Max Evade + Block with 80(C,D) Dagger is 46
Pikes Max Evade + Block with 80(D) Pike is 58 (Pole + Shield 65-70+ Evade)
Pikes Max Critical with 80(D) Pike (+10) and 10 Critical Mastery is 42 (Additional Crit depending on Assassin Eye Level, and whether it is casted on the mob)
Pikes in summary, get better defense, the potential for better critical (if you debuff every mob and level assassin's eye, but who does that with vague and amplify).
Assassin's get more passive critical, an option to attack "decently" without mana via Inpes, Better group support (Alas), More absorb (due to offset of Pike's Amplify, but lets face it, they will be taking more damage due to the above numbers I outlined).
Assassins get higher damage overall due to their mastery skill and min on their weapons surpassing pikes, and the passive critical taking effect.
Assassins have stun and lower enemy damage perks (not tested in higher level maps). If poison actually worked in PVP, that would be a plus. Wish it was an active buff to apply a DOT on normal attacks.
Assassin's cannot do ANYTHING with a shield equipped, that is, they cannot buff, and they obviously cannot attack, so a pike wins in that regard.
Pike's are probably more accurate(amplify). I don't know how Attack Mastery works, but I think it may add a % of your overall attack rating to skills, that's my best guess.
Assassin is weaker in SOD than a Pike, because of target limit on Shadow Bomb. That being said, Shadow bomb is probably stronger/more versatile in higher maps (Ice Map+) because of the damage per cast being higher than Tornado. The laggy animation however, can kill you.



Bugs

Attack mastery description is in Spanish. Does it work as intended?
Blind does not work, period. Doesn't add damage, the buff stays active, only works to conceal enemy vision at the moment. The stats may mirror Pikes Vanish exactly, I just haven't tested the skill at higher levels.
Some bug where if you use Blind in Ice map, it makes you invisible when frozen.
Assassin holds their weapons wrong, slowing down their normal attacks. Fixed by Sunny's Patch (https://forum.subagames.com/showthread.php?t=65644).
Using a Cash Shop hair potion on your character leaves you without a headband, appearing if you are only tier 1. When I used the potion, I was at tier 5, so I have no idea if that has an effect or not.
Along the same lines, using Blind with the cash shop hair for Assassin, you can see your face in the back of your head. Strange I know!
Mixing (using mixing/gemming formulas) on Assassin's weapons do not work. You can only age your weapons.


Any more bugs that I have forgotten or you have noticed, please post in this thread, thanks.

Things to test (Event Girl?)

Polluted at higher levels. It doesn't work in PVP as far as I tested. Not sure how strong the duration or damage gets. However, it is weak overall because it is not modified by anything.
Frost Wind / Pasting Shadow / Rising Slash / Violence Stab / Storm - Number of hits change with levels? Do the modifiers change significantly?
Inpes 10 with a 9 speed weapon effect on attack skill speed and normal attack speed. Similarly, throw in a Shaman Midranda buff for the heck of it.
Beat Up at higher levels. I assume this follows a simple formula, but is there delay?
Soul Shock/Wisp in higher maps and in PVP. Is it resisted like holy mind or ATA Shield Strike, FS Roar?
Venom Throme. Does this get any better or does it just has a Poison animation for the heck of it? No Poison DOT?
Running Hit/ Stingger. Probably useless, but you never know unless you test.



Anything else you can think of, please post in the thread.

Stats
Strength: Rest
Spirit: 62 (Min spirit murky?) or your call depending on mana needs.
Talent: 90
Agility: 72?
Health: 22 or your call (less defense than Pike)

Builds

I recommend:
SP
Dual Sword Mastery 10
Attack Mastery 10
Alas 10

EP
Fatal Mastery 10 (or your call depending on how much crit you want to give up to place into other EP skills. I say atleast 5 should be a necessity, but feel free to experiment on what suits your playstyle).

Standard Build
Dual Sword Mastery 10
Attack Mastery 10
Alas 10
Sore Sword 10
Fatal Mastery 10
Shadow Bomb 10 (you can leave off the other EP skills to max sooner)

Good AOE and good crit. Can't go wrong here.

Low Mana Cost/Burst
Dual Sword Mastery 10
Attack Mastery 10
Alas 10
Inpes 8-10 (or w.e works for you)
Fatal Mastery 10
Violence Stab 10

Sacrifice your AOE damage to deal better 1v1 than Sore Sword. With Violence Stab, you don't need Sore Sword, as it is redundant. Inpes is for those times when you need to deal damage, but burn through your mana too quickly. Plus variety. You can also leave off Inpes and put the points into something like Soul Shock, Wisp or Blind, to suit your fancy.

No Mana Cost/DOT
Base Spirit
Dual Sword Mastery 10
Attack Mastery 10
Alas 10
Inpes 10
Fatal Mastery 10
Polluted 10? or experiment

An interesting non-cookie cutter build. Problem is attack rating however, so I don't think the extra ~50 points of str would be worth the tradeoff. You could do some interesting things like, leave tier 5 blank and mess around with Polluted damage. I just wish it worked in PVP. You actually probably could get off a level 10 Pasting Shadow with base spirit. With buffs, you are probably still drinking a decent amount of mana, and there is the higher ring and amulet trade off. Probably not worth it because it seems attack mastery only raises your AR with skills.

Hybrid, with a high damage, cool down attack

Dual Sword Mastery 10
Attack Mastery 10
Alas 10
Sore Sword 10
OR
Inpes 8-10
Blind Rest, if/when it gets fixed
Fatal Mastery 5-10
Shadow Bomb 3+
Storm 10

With this build, you are given a bit of variety. For managing MP Costs, I really like Inpes even though many scoff at the skill. You can burn through your mana with Shadow bomb, finish the stragglers with Inpes, throw out a Storm to 1 hit something, and Sore Sword the rest. Shadow Bomb at lvl 3, I really like, as it gives you just enough range and targets to be "decent". Someone claimed that Storm was 1v1, but under the description for Assassin on the BR site, it says "Area of Effect". I have not tested the skill myself. The sacrifices of this build are that you give up some Critical and AOE damage over the standard build, for some variety, and potentially better mana management (Inpes). Inpes again, just gives you that flexibility of conserving mana, yet still dealing damage, bursting your mana when you need it, and saying "I'm too lazy to/can't repot but still want to dish out damage". Certainly not "optimal" over using a skill for every attack, but hey, use whatever suits your playstyle. Another option is ditching Storm and using Violence Stab, sacrificing the fatal mastery, and keeping Shadow Bomb a decent level.

Additional Skills to consider:
Blind: If it ever gets fixed.
Soul Shock: Decent at level 3+ I say. The duration makes it potentially, a very powerful tool in PVP.
Wisp: As a priest, I use holy mind often on Morgonia or Blue Mountain, outside of that, doesn't see much use because other monsters resist it. I haven't tested how effect Wisp is on monster's resistances, or its application in PVP.

That's it guys, my lengthy write up, constructed in about 4 hours, and having leveled an Assassin to 85. Please chime in with your thoughts, edits. Much appreciated.

Assassin is a fairly neat class, with some positives and negatives. Not nearly as OP as a Pike, but they have some decent perks, plus the passive critical is nice. Very high potential in build variety.

ElysiumFox
May 4th, 2014, 12:15 AM
Shadow Bomb delay at lv 4. (Delay increase per lv)

Violence Stab lv 2 60%. 20% per lv.

Viseris
May 4th, 2014, 01:48 AM
Thanks for the info Silent (hey by the way :awsum:).

Having tested Violence Stab, it is one of those skills that has low starting values, but high potential (like a lot of Assassin Skills). At level 1, you will be disappointed. Less damage than a level 1 Sore Sword. Plus the animation is slower. However, if I am going by the trend, it has the potential for 220%+ Damage at level 10, which is INSANE. 100+ Mana per cast yeah, and slightly slower animation speed, so that is something to consider.

I had no idea Shadow Bomb had a delay, that makes no sense. Hmm...most Assassins get 10 of this skill despite that...? It's a good skill but, I mean the animation is laggy and can certainly kill you. Not to mention, you can often kills things 1v1 faster. Though I can understand the investment that is needed into the tier 5 skills, you need a high lvl to make the most of it.

Someone want to give some input on Storm, the tier 5 90 skill? I don't have it yet sadly. From what I read from another thread, the user claimed it was 1v1 with a cooldown. I don't know how many times it hits, or the other properties however, like delay time.

Right, Violence Stab hits twice, but it has the weird property where the last hit seems to come out later due to the animation.

ElysiumFox
May 4th, 2014, 07:18 AM
I have seen videos on youtube. where the storm at lv 10 has 320% dmg boost.
But I'm not sure that's the official value.

KnightDarkEnergy
May 5th, 2014, 05:31 AM
murky min spirit is 64 ( ex knight is 68 )
:COOL:

ElysiumFox
May 5th, 2014, 06:46 AM
murky min spirit is 64 ( ex knight is 68 )
:COOL:

murky perf min spirit for assa is 62.

Soulia
May 5th, 2014, 10:55 AM
murky perf min spirit for assa is 62.

Would like to see a screenshot of this. Mathematically, it just doesn't follow what's been done previously with -% reqs.

Soulia
May 5th, 2014, 11:12 AM
And yep... confirmed with info from KPT site...

64 is min Spirit on Assa Murkies. Maybe you confused a Assa VR you saw?

ElysiumFox
May 5th, 2014, 11:57 AM
i selled murky 62 spirit 0.9 0.9 Spec 0.6.... ask whit Sunnyz :v

megaman007
May 5th, 2014, 04:30 PM
lol i hope you got a bundle for it being that low spirit. That might have been a rare murky.

Soulia
May 5th, 2014, 04:36 PM
Still 0.3 off, which meant it was only 0.1 better than a perfect Trans.

GamesterX23
May 11th, 2014, 01:58 PM
Has anyone tested Inpes with Venom Throne or Running Attack?

Viseris
May 12th, 2014, 01:16 PM
Has anyone tested Inpes with Venom Throne or Running Attack?

Inpes is a "strange" skill. You may have noticed that the Assassin's regular attack is quite potent, however, it still doesn't really hold up to skills unless you have the right build. By that I mean, 10 Inpes and 10 Fatal Mastery. The problem is, despite how fast you will be hitting, you still have the chance to miss (based on attack rating). I have only noticed a "slight" speed difference in animation lag between using Inpes with Sore Sword and without. Strange enough, this is the only skill where I noticed the differences (did not test Storm, but I highly doubt it would make a difference). So really, Inpes seems to be more of a strategical skill to conserve mana and/or get a few hits in during an otherwise lengthy animation. Inpes (and regular attacks) give good Damage Over Time, but bad burst damage (that the skills provide) due to the unpredictability of critical hits and misses.

It doesn't seem like it would be the optimal build because of its limitations, but something to test out. Remember, you need a high level of Inpes and Fatal Mastery to be effective, even then, it has its obvious drawbacks. With an Inpes investment, you give up points into Sore Sword, however, you could place EP into Violence Stab for your spammable attack and use Inpes to conserve mana. As such, you are definitely given options.

I have not tested the various "animation lag delay" of Sore Sword with different levels of Inpes. All I know is that you can execute the next move slightly faster, and either pot/take another action quicker than without the buff on.

As far as the other attacks at high levels? That is on my to do list when the Event Girl hits. Will be testing all tier 1-4 skills at levels 10 and tier 5 (for the levels that can reach), and I suggest others to help with testing as well.

GamesterX23
May 13th, 2014, 09:18 AM
Violence Stab LV 2
60% DMG Boost
78 MP Cost
92 Stam

Level 3

80% DMG Boost
81 MP
94 Stam

I'll let you know if storm is spammable tomorrowish.

GamesterX23
May 14th, 2014, 08:46 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V09a1PeDVDM&feature=youtu.be

Level 1 storm is 50% and level 2 is 80%. Long delay so no spam and it does NOT do AOE damage. I'm going to stick with shadow bomb for now and test violence stab once I hit high enough level. It sucked at level 2.

Viseris
May 16th, 2014, 12:36 PM
Yes, that's the problem with Storm and Rising Strike (Tier 5) they only hit 1 time, (as far as I know). I have no idea if they possibly get more hits at a higher level or not. Pike's Jumping Crash can "sometimes" kill, so I am not discounting it ability to kill something at a high level (Storm). However, it is almost certainly on a critical hit, and when you aren't hitting a critical, the damage will be abysmal (for the most part).

Additionally, the problem with Storm is that you have to either give up your AOE (Shadow Bomb) or your high spammable damage (Violence Stab) in order to use it. That makes things really iffy in my opinion. Assassin's tier 5 as a whole is meh, though I realize Violence Stab has some serious damage potential if you raise it. I personally don't like how slow VS is compared to Sore Sword, but that's just me.

A skill's casting animation delay can be the difference between life and death, and when you look at Shadow Bomb (one example), you are rendered helpless for a good 5? secs roughly. Compare this to a Pike's tornado. Simple 2?sec cast time, comes out quick, good range (they can probably do the bug attack in SOD that allows them to hit more mobs) and no target limit. Assassin is just never going to be good at SOD, ever.Also, casting this skill in the middle of the SOD arena without VL? Good luck surviving. I am serious when I say it is a slow, laggy attack. Mana cost also being an issue, 60-80 mana a cast, can't spam at higher levels (4+? I tried lvl 3 and is spammable) and overall, it just makes the skill a pain to use.

You have to consider the Assassin's critical and 1v1 killing speed. The time it takes to cast shadow bomb to annihilate a mob, you probably mopped things up with Sore Sword already. I don't personally feel comfortable casting (as in spamming in the center of a mob) Shadow Bomb in i2, atleast without VL. Once again I have to reiterate the other negatives, mana cost, target limit, and delay time.

By the way, Pollute (Tier 4) may have some potential, just not at level 1. I agree it is VERY weak (to the point that its almost a waste of mana) at level 1. However, that being said, 4+ (where I assume it gains +targets, +duration +damage) may make it worth using. You could bring up the point of doing more damage in 1 Shadow Bomb than 1 Pollute. Yes and no. Let's say you hit 3 targets for 50dmg/sec for 5 secs. That's a total of 750 damage. Again, rather weak but I am just comparing a level 1 Pollute. The advantage is that you can cast the skill and attack other enemies, which is where the skill really shines. It will be interesting if the skill had a "persistant" effect where the poison actually remained on the field and could poison additional monsters. Again, I have not tested further than level 1.

I want to do some more testing with skills but waiting on Event Girl.

I wanted to mention that leaving off EP on the tier 5 skills you don't use is very beneficial to Assassin. Storm, Violence Stab are not needed unless you are specializing in these particular skills. Storm, I don't recommend until 102+ and Violence Stab 94+ (140% Damage Boost) to make the most of these. As such, Shadow Bomb seems like the safest choice, leaving 0 EP in Rising Strike, Violence and Storm.

GamesterX23
May 20th, 2014, 11:19 AM
I tested out Pollute level 10 as well as Shadow Bomb 10 and Violence Stab 7 (I think it was 7). Violence stab seems to miss a LOT . . . beat up often outdamages it and seems to do more consistent damage overall since it doesn't seem to ever miss the main target. When Violence stab DOES connect (both hits) it does tons of damage. I would say the Assassin would need to have much more Attack Rating for this skill to be useful. I'll test level 10 in the future. . . . it seems as if Attack Mastery does not add attack rating when using this skill :(.

Pollute is 100% useless and just wastes mana, stamina, and time that could be spent doing real damage.

Shadow Bomb level 10 is probably THE best skill to level with until at least 10x. It increased my killing rate in I2 HS significantly. Use beat-up twice, swap to Shadow Bomb 10 and use it once. Mobs were dropping so much faster as Shadow Bomb was hitting 9 targets. It would take between 1/5 and 1/3 of some enemies life bar each hit. With EXP Pot, Phoenix Pet,cuspid, mana pot, and X2 exp I was receiving up to 800kk/hour experience soloing. Beat-up also has the effect of making your hp and mp regen to full/near full if you hit enough enemies and are using a mana pot/cuspid.

Viseris
May 22nd, 2014, 12:10 AM
Thanks for the feedback GamesterX23. I had not considered using Shadow Bomb in conjunction with Beat-up. Seems like a good combo. I admit that Pollute is weak (seems like a mirror version of Pike's Tier 3 Skill) and could use some rebalancing or damage scaling (will never happen though). I had no idea Violence Stab missed so much, that is definately detrimental to using the skill.

Attack Mastery is a strange skill that I still don't understand. You think it would increase attack rating with all skills, yet it doesn't work with Violence Stab? Is that intended or a bug? If AM didn't increase our attack rating at all, we would be missing more than a Pike without Amplify. Sore Sword seems to be effected, but I didn't test on LOC+ mobs.

Then, that begs the question on whether Storm has a boosted hit rate. That may balance things considerably if it only hits once at all levels(?) and cannot be spammed, where Violence Stab can be. Still, if you consider Shadow Spam usage, it seems superior outside of PVP. However, the point still stands that you are likely to kill yourself using Shadow Bomb in a high map tanking things, but can be effective in a party setting to dwindle the HP of several mobs. I agree that Fatal Mastery/Shadow Bomb seems to be the way to go for the most part.

Some other notes from my testing.


Frost Wind Hits Twice at all levels
Pasting Shadow hits twice at all levels
Wisp doesn't seem to be resisted by mobs (unlike Holy Mind). Did not test in LOC+
Soul Shock - Some Mobs resist the skill, but in PVP it appears to increase the duration as it implies, up to 22 seconds. Players seem to be stunned, which you may be able to resist, didn't test extensively on multiple players/setups.
Venom Throne/Running Hit - Hits twice at all levels.


My issue is that, do Assassin's really have more Damage Output(DPS) than a Pike? If you look at Assassin's Eye skill on Pike, they can get more Critical than Assassin with just level 2 or 3 on the skill. That is outrageous. All Assassin can do is lower a mob's attack power, while may be useful in higher maps (not resisted?) it doesn't match up to an Amplify/Assassin's Eye Combo which is OP.

So where exactly does an Assassin excel over Pike? Party Support? Lol. That much is true, they do give 16% or is it 8%? I have no idea if it is halved, to party members. You think that it would be halved, keeping in line with other similar skills (HOV, Mech Attack Boost,) but not sure. They have less defense (evade/block), you can make a case of having more absorb but really, 30 absorb may make a difference in PVP but not hunting maps. Less DPS than a Pike (because of Assassin's Eye, Amplify and Assassin's lower attack rating). Not to mention our one Tier 5 attack that could be decent, misses often.

With Assassin, it seems they are meant to be a flashy AOE user in combination with their 1v1 attacks/speed. In that sense, their situational AOE is better than Pike. What that means is that if you have Mobs spread around the party (i.e. not in a circle around 1 player) they have better AOE/range/dmg than what tornado can do. Doesn't change the fact that the skill is slow.

I am disappointed that we don't have a SINGLE attack that is more than two hits. I mean, really? If Violence Stab really doesn't add AR gained from Attack Rating, using that skill is just a gamble (high MP cost/high miss rate). If Storm Adds attack rating, it seems that would be the best 1v1 combination with Sore Sword usage in the delay.

However, Storm hits once. Theoretically, let's say you have Level 10 Sore Sword (92% Boost x 2 Hits) and Level 10 Storm (1 hit x 350% Boost).

You hit for 1000 Damage (105-108 good weap, enigma force) x (.92) = 1920 x 2 = 3840 (Sword Sword)

Storm - You hit for 1000 damage x 3.5 = 3500

This is based on 0 critical hits.

Let's say you hit a critical hit with Storm, (based on previous numbers) = 5950 damage.

What I don't understand is how this could do anymore damage than a Sword Sword level 10 attack, unless it hits more than once at higher levels. Doesn't add up in the slightest. Unless there is a strange phenomenon where you apply the critical before the modifier where Storm's high mod would elevate the resulting damage significantly. Regardless, you would match that damage with two Sore Sword's easily.

One Hit attacks just don't make sense. There is a case for Pike's Jumping Crash because of its accuracy. Archer's Wind Shot because of Speed/mana and ATA Twist Jav for the same reason's as Pike (but who levels that). Other than that...no other attack will kill.

What also might be interesting to calculate is Inpes Level 10/Fatal Mastery 10 DPS compared to Sore Sword 10. Sore Sword probably bloww it out of the water, but you have to take critical hits/speed into account. Let's say you somehow hit 4 criticals in a row with a base damage of 1000. Here I am assuming you can get 4 normal hits per cast of Sore Sword.

1000 x (4) = 4000 | 1000 x (.7) x 4 = 2800 | 4000 + 2800 = 6800 (4 normal attacks, all criticals Inpes 10)

1000 Damage (105-108 good weap, enigma force) x (.92) = 1920 x 2 = 3840 (Sword Sword) (no crits)

1000 Damage (105-108 good weap, enigma force) x (.92) = 1920 x (.7) = 1344 x 2 = 2688| 2688 + 3840 = 6528 (Sword Sword) (all crits)

This is ofcourse under the best favorable conditions, which assumes:

Inpes AND Fatal Mastery are both level 10
You hit 4 straight criticals on normal attacks
You hit (don't miss on the attacks)
You can actually hit 4 times (2 normal swings) in Sore Sword's animation time, with Inpes 10.


Because of the damage variance, not hitting a critical on every attack, and misses, Sore Sword is obviously the better option. While we don't know the boost that a speed 9 weapon provides to Inpes, the same results (damage variance and misses) will apply. Still, an effective option if you want to go this route, to save on Mana/STM costs (not have an excuse to stop attacking). Good to finish off enemies with only a small amount of health remaining. Also useful to get damage in during high risk situations (where animation lag will kill you). This is because one attack will come out quicker than any thing else, allowing you to pot faster.

So, in summary, Assassin looks like a flashier pike with more DPS in a mob setting (passive critical) but not during hunting. Better situational AOE damage, and party support. Low/No mana cost attack option. Wisp as a debuff will keep you alive, but wont' kill the mob faster compared to Assassin's eye. Stun over freeze (which I assume is resisted in higher maps), but probably nifty in PVP (you can still pot while stunned).

Fafard
May 22nd, 2014, 10:56 AM
a normal attack is 1hit, not 2 even if the animation shows it.

ElysiumFox
May 22nd, 2014, 12:30 PM
Shadow bom at lv 10 5 sec delay :v

Viseris
May 22nd, 2014, 01:02 PM
a normal attack is 1hit, not 2 even if the animation shows it.

Hmm. That may be so. As much as I would like to like Inpes, it just doesn't seem to be a viable skill at the moment, or could be bugged.(waste of points). This consensus, and as a result of further testing, I would recommend to the leave the skill at 1. That being said, casting the skill does offer some "small" benefit ONLY to Sore Sword "lag" (and normal attacks but, normals are surprisingly weak).

Another question I have for Assassin users: How do Beat-up work?

Is it effected by force damage? Does it have the chance to critical on the targeted enemy? Essentially, I am asking if it functions as a 1v1 attack, with an AOE bonus, which would make it a unique skill. I could of sworn I actually missed a hit of Beat up before, despite its AOE function. I know it hits twice, but I am wondering if this could be a "replacement" for Sore Sword with better damage, only with a slightly longer start-up/animation.

Second question: Does Blind even work?

I know some users have claimed that this skill is bugged, but, is it really? Sometimes with level 1 it "feels" like I am doing more damage when I cast it, but it could be a placebo effect. It may just be damage variance playing tricks with me (we know critical fluctuations can be high). It would be an interesting contrast to Pike's to have the skill stay active after attacking, but would that be OP?

Last question: How is Assassin Hit Rate?

I have no idea if Attack Mastery is working as intended or not, but I have always had it at level 10. In i1 and i2, it seems like I miss 1 out of 2 attacks on Sore Sword "sometimes". If attack mastery added 62% of your TOTAL attack rating, you would have ~1600 attack rating with 1000 base AR. Seems decent, however, it sometimes feels like I am missing alot (I know normal attacks are not effected because I miss a significant amount).

Where is the balance if Assassin's get no additional AR, no multi hit attacks (over 2), lower critical (hunting), less defense over Pike? Yeah, Beat-up seems to be a decent attack (dwindling the HP of surrounding mobs while focusing on 1) combined with Shadow Bomb, but Pike's still have tornado, a fast AOE with no target limit and 360 degree range.

GamesterX23
May 27th, 2014, 01:36 PM
As far as I can tell, Force damage does NOT affect Beat-Up. I also don't think criticals are possible, but I could be wrong there. I honestly wouldn't replace sore sword with beat-up, as sore sword is faster animation-wise and also more practical in certain situations. The best combination for leveling IS sore sword, beat up, and Shadow Bomb combined. The reason Beat-up is so unique is because its base 1v1 damage is decent AND the splash damage applies to regen pots/cuspids, which gives any assassin that spends money on the game a huge advantage in leveling speed, as well as spawn-holding and money-generating capabilities (mana anyone?)

Has anyone tried blind level 10?

As far as hit-rate goes. I believe mine has around 1100-1200 attack rating, but it is difficult for me to gauge as to whether or not attack mastery is working or not as well. I miss a bit, but not enough to severely inhibit my killing speed in most maps. My attack rating in ET seems adequate as well.

So far I think Assassins also have the WORST HP formula of any melee character in the game. A level 86 knight with good rings (sealed) has just as much hp or more than a level 100 assasin with similar or slightly better rings. This is pretty unacceptable, considering there are absolutely zero one-handed weapons that assassins can use to their advantage.

I have a good feeling that some day assassins will be rebalanced, as there are no reasons to level one at the moment beyond personal reasons. People that party with them complain about them slowing exp down and high level assassins often complain that they cannot tank well or cannot deal considerable amounts of damage in any situation.

I also believe that more testing needs to be done on high level skills, as some skills will state low damage increases (ie 15% more damage) but seem to do much more than that when actually used. Trusting the "300% extra damage" on storm level 10 without testing it is kind of a moot point.

Oh yeah one last thing . . . on the subject of beat-up & shadow bomb vs Tornado. I have a level 93 pike and I'm confident that at level 93 my Assassin would outkill him in I2 hs. Tornado only gives a 50% damage boost at level 5 while Shadow Bomb gives a HUGE base damage boost at all levels. Shadow Bomb has more range. Tornado often pushes enemies into a circle around you so you're not necessarily hitting 15-20 enemies at a time. Cuspids and Mana pots also don't work on tornado.

RainStar_Mech
May 27th, 2014, 03:24 PM
Gamester,
I want to meet up with you in-game to see how you play in I2 HS.
I took my 100 Assa there last night with my MS +10 and +11 gear to try what you showed me, but dang she took so much damage I was potting more than attacking.

Hopefully we can cross paths at some point. I admit, I didn't have mana recharger or Vamp Cuspid, but I know with the damage I was taking, it would not have helped.

Also, the skill Shadow Bomb, what a goofy skill to cast in my opinion. You have to make sure you are not moused over anything or it does jsut a simple attach skill. At least that is what I noticed.

Sadly, I would know more if I actually played my Assa to level 100, but I didn't and now I am struggling to figure out how to play her effectively. As it sits now, I think she is simply eye candy. haha

Cheers!

BnGt447igxPth7Y
May 27th, 2014, 08:32 PM
murky min spirit is 62 per 25938
murky min spirit is 64 ( ex knight is 68 )
:COOL:

ForceAta001
May 28th, 2014, 07:34 AM
murky min spirit is 62 per 25938

really?? or hate b***h that item bug?

Wassup670
May 28th, 2014, 10:05 AM
Gamester,
I want to meet up with you in-game to see how you play in I2 HS.
I took my 100 Assa there last night with my MS +10 and +11 gear to try what you showed me, but dang she took so much damage I was potting more than attacking.

Hopefully we can cross paths at some point. I admit, I didn't have mana recharger or Vamp Cuspid, but I know with the damage I was taking, it would not have helped.

Also, the skill Shadow Bomb, what a goofy skill to cast in my opinion. You have to make sure you are not moused over anything or it does jsut a simple attach skill. At least that is what I noticed.

Sadly, I would know more if I actually played my Assa to level 100, but I didn't and now I am struggling to figure out how to play her effectively. As it sits now, I think she is simply eye candy. haha

Cheers!

dont know but i just continuesly hitting left and right click when spamming shadow bomb.. even if you dont target a mobs if you are near any mobs and continuesly clicking right click sometimes it will still normal attack the nearest mob

GamesterX23
May 28th, 2014, 11:06 AM
I've always had a habit of keeping my mouse outside of the mob I'm fighting, even before i started playing Assassins so it feels natural to me. Just remember, Beat up TWICE then during the animation move your mouse outside of the mob. Treat it like you would treat divine lightning.

Also remember that you can right click while holding left click to move around, just like you can with DL. You can use the camera movement to confirm the end of the beat-up animation so you know when to right click.

Viseris
May 28th, 2014, 12:42 PM
Thanks for the input guys.




Has anyone tried blind level 10?





On blind, there was this vid: https://forum.subagames.com/showthread.php?t=66691

It seems to confirm that the damage boost applies to the first hit only. As such, it seems like blind --> Storm would be an "effective" combo. However, at the same time, not really. Blind as a whole seems to be largely bugged.

You are probably correct about the HP formula.

What sort of balance adjustments to Assassins do you think are necessary in light of this? By the way, Beat-up has a delay, I just don't know at what level it starts. I had mine at 8, and there was a delay of 3-5 secs, making it a lot less viable. Good notes about the i2 assassin vs pike. Interesting to take into account. Considering Assassin's have extremely low HP and defense, I think blind damage boost (and -visibility) should stay up permanently, either that or have it function similar to Pike's where you can recast it. For reference, my Assassin had around ~515 HP (iirc) with a 80 Health stat, 90 quest complete (no VR's and -15 HP from not turning in tier 3 HP). Seems extremely low considering things. Seems they would easily die faster than a low str ATA, no question (or PRS).

GamesterX23
May 30th, 2014, 12:38 AM
Thanks for the input guys.





On blind, there was this vid: https://forum.subagames.com/showthread.php?t=66691

It seems to confirm that the damage boost applies to the first hit only. As such, it seems like blind --> Storm would be an "effective" combo. However, at the same time, not really. Blind as a whole seems to be largely bugged.

You are probably correct about the HP formula.

What sort of balance adjustments to Assassins do you think are necessary in light of this? By the way, Beat-up has a delay, I just don't know at what level it starts. I had mine at 8, and there was a delay of 3-5 secs, making it a lot less viable. Good notes about the i2 assassin vs pike. Interesting to take into account. Considering Assassin's have extremely low HP and defense, I think blind damage boost (and -visibility) should stay up permanently, either that or have it function similar to Pike's where you can recast it. For reference, my Assassin had around ~515 HP (iirc) with a 80 Health stat, 90 quest complete (no VR's and -15 HP from not turning in tier 3 HP). Seems extremely low considering things. Seems they would easily die faster than a low str ATA, no question (or PRS).

Thats because it is low. My pike has 619 HP at level 93 . . .579 with no rings. My assassin at 100 has 440 HP with rings and 410 without . . . 169 LESS.

I'm honestly not sure what balance adjustments assassins need. The only advantage an assassin has on paper is her combined block and dodge. 14% block from 80d, 16% dodge from mastery, and 16% dodge from Alas. Total "blocked or evaded" moves should be 46%, but one hit with only 410-440 hp in a high level map IS a recipe for disaster. . . . especially considering some enemies like Dead King Hopy can hit multiple times in 1 attack. Even with a KA and 2 VRs you have only ~555 hp at level 100. STILL less than my pike with NO Vrs and NO KA.

I believe Assassins could use a better HP formula (not necessarily as good as pikes, due to their increased dodge, vs vague level 1.) If Wisp worked and Blind could be re-cast or canceled that would be great, but I don't think blind would be a cure-all since Assassins initial strike damage is already somewhat "low" with sore sword. I do believe it would change the game up a bit though.

We still need to do testing on high level assassin skills. Its difficult to test because it requires actual money to be spent when event girl is around if you dont want to spend 30 years retraining skills. You never know . . . .working Blind + Storm could wreak havoc in a high level map, enabling Assassins to gain effective solo experience in those areas.

I also need to re-test violence stab. I had a discussion with SongNhi about it and he had the same exact issue with it though . . . it misses far too often to be effective and has a slow attack animation.

Also need to test a combination of skills. What if attack mastery was level 1 and you had high level rising slash (or storm,) high level pasting shadow (or frost wind,) and used sore sword 10 in-between. You might miss out on criticals, but would the increased damage output from spamming skills be worth it? Would you be able to spam them in such a way that there is almost no delay (so no more sore sword!) in-between?

Also - I don't think this is true as my damage fluctuates too much, but have you ever felt like you were dealing extra damage when polluted is used on an enemy? I use it on enemies randomly and sometimes feel as if I'm doing more damage, but I believe that may be due to random criticals during skills.

Oh yeah . . . I'm really a big fan of the current Dagger (assin spec only) setup, but being able to use skills 1 handed would be nice I suppose.

SongNhi
May 31st, 2014, 12:21 PM
I still cannot find the good way to build my assasin :D

momay99
November 28th, 2014, 03:51 AM
no more update?;)