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LuLuNoir
November 22nd, 2014, 02:12 PM
Ok I hate Aeria, now. They are so dang silly with their cash shop. They want you to spend like 500$. And I'm like no way. I aint crazy. But I guess they do offer cool stuff for people who spend at least like 10$ a month on the game. A little extra on the side if you know what I mean.

What do you guys think about cash shop bonuses provided in the form of Tiered Spending Bonuses? I kind of miss it from Aerias DOMO. Spend 20 or 40 dollars here and you get something awesome. Haha, or they did those AP rebates. Loved those to death. Nothing like getting 50% of spent AP back.

So what do you guys think?
Do you think SubaG could try implementing this into the game (cash shop)?
Also, what about Subapoint rebates?

Disclaimer: :O

ArabPikachu
November 22nd, 2014, 02:18 PM
Sure, if people participate why not. You should have made this thread a poll.

Livipo
November 22nd, 2014, 02:18 PM
I liked it too :)

And I also think it was a genius move on their part.. If you could get the first tier then you were pretty close to the next one anyways.. So why not get that one too.. I mean, the stuff you got were pretty cool xD Or the one thing you really really wanted was in the top tier or something.. They knew how to get ppl to buy :P

Gambachi
November 22nd, 2014, 02:19 PM
Yeah I don't mind it as long as the price is in around the same ball park as it used to be.

LuLuNoir
November 22nd, 2014, 02:21 PM
Sure, if people participate why not. You should have made this thread a poll.

LOL You're right. But to be bloody honest I despise polls.

MinatoU
November 22nd, 2014, 02:28 PM
The higher tiers for those things usually end up with pretty game-breaking items, since they have to keep raising the rewards higher and higher each month, until buying the top tier every month becomes a requirement to even compete in raids/pvp

Fortunately in Domo there is a lot less need for competition over the best gears/items, unless you really want to solo the hardest content in the game..

DOMOAKFrost
November 22nd, 2014, 02:35 PM
rebates is one of the reason aeria's domo failed, so no to that.

LuLuNoir
November 22nd, 2014, 02:36 PM
rebates is one of the reason aeria's domo failed, so no to that.

Can you elaborate on your opinion? =o

GraceySells
November 22nd, 2014, 02:54 PM
I would like to see some sort of promotion system (tiered spenders) implemented by Suba. However, I'd like to think that they would do a better job at coming up with promotions than AG did (I'm looking at you, Chief). Since Suba is new to DOMO, they probably don't know much about what items are of value, how items work, what items are considered more desirable than others, etc. So, early Item Mall is probably going to be an experiment for them.

What I'd like to see, ideally, is:
- Consistent pricing of items
- Maintain the rarity of some items
- When something is marketed as "expensive, rare, wow!" make sure it stays that way, lest they piss off their customers (example: Permanent Saras, exclusive, super expensive, over $100 each. A few weeks later, they're in mystery boxes for .99 cents. Random chance, but I probably ended up with 10+ permanent Saras from a few dozen boxes)
- Variety, as opposed too a couple quick-sellers being pushed promo and promo again
- Prices within reason. Some items should be more expensive, exclusive than others. But $25 for a costume? Pushing it. I wouldn't pay that for a physical, fibrous t-shirt
- Space the promotions out, but keep them consistent. I remember when AG did promotions once a week. I would wait all week for the weekend tiered spender and it was always interesting enough to keep me spending (gold for AP). Then they just started throwing everything they could at us to make us spend as much as possible

But I have no idea how Suba runs their item mall.

Rebates... Lol, oh man. I think I probably got 20K worth of stuff free each rebate xD

Oribani
November 22nd, 2014, 03:00 PM
I enjoyed the Tiered Spender on DOMO, but then it got tiring. And Aeria is asking for ridiculous amounts of money for so little in their other games.

ArabPikachu
November 22nd, 2014, 03:06 PM
I would like to see some sort of promotion system (tiered spenders) implemented by Suba. However, I'd like to think that they would do a better job at coming up with promotions than AG did (I'm looking at you, Chief). Since Suba is new to DOMO, they probably don't know much about what items are of value, how items work, what items are considered more desirable than others, etc. So, early Item Mall is probably going to be an experiment for them.

What I'd like to see, ideally, is:
- Consistent pricing of items
- Maintain the rarity of some items
- When something is marketed as "expensive, rare, wow!" make sure it stays that way, lest they piss off their customers (example: Permanent Saras, exclusive, super expensive, over $100 each. A few weeks later, they're in mystery boxes for .99 cents. Random chance, but I probably ended up with 10+ permanent Saras from a few dozen boxes)
- Variety, as opposed too a couple quick-sellers being pushed promo and promo again
- Prices within reason. Some items should be more expensive, exclusive than others. But $25 for a costume? Pushing it. I wouldn't pay that for a physical, fibrous t-shirt
- Space the promotions out, but keep them consistent. I remember when AG did promotions once a week. I would wait all week for the weekend tiered spender and it was always interesting enough to keep me spending (gold for AP). Then they just started throwing everything they could at us to make us spend as much as possible

But I have no idea how Suba runs their item mall.

Rebates... Lol, oh man. I think I probably got 20K worth of stuff free each rebate xD

*picks up the phone* hello? Subagames? Hi, I found you guys a new employee. Please take her into consideration..

McLuv1n
November 22nd, 2014, 03:09 PM
rebates is one of the reason aeria's domo failed, so no to that.

I have to agree, Although i enjoyed their 100-50% rebates every month and took full advantage of it, it eventually broke the economy. The rich got richer.

ArabPikachu
November 22nd, 2014, 03:26 PM
I agree, keep rare items rare.

DOMOAKFrost
November 22nd, 2014, 04:03 PM
I would like to see some sort of promotion system (tiered spenders) implemented by Suba. However, I'd like to think that they would do a better job at coming up with promotions than AG did (I'm looking at you, Chief). Since Suba is new to DOMO, they probably don't know much about what items are of value, how items work, what items are considered more desirable than others, etc. So, early Item Mall is probably going to be an experiment for them.

What I'd like to see, ideally, is:
- Consistent pricing of items
- Maintain the rarity of some items
- When something is marketed as "expensive, rare, wow!" make sure it stays that way, lest they piss off their customers (example: Permanent Saras, exclusive, super expensive, over $100 each. A few weeks later, they're in mystery boxes for .99 cents. Random chance, but I probably ended up with 10+ permanent Saras from a few dozen boxes)
- Variety, as opposed too a couple quick-sellers being pushed promo and promo again
- Prices within reason. Some items should be more expensive, exclusive than others. But $25 for a costume? Pushing it. I wouldn't pay that for a physical, fibrous t-shirt
- Space the promotions out, but keep them consistent. I remember when AG did promotions once a week. I would wait all week for the weekend tiered spender and it was always interesting enough to keep me spending (gold for AP). Then they just started throwing everything they could at us to make us spend as much as possible

But I have no idea how Suba runs their item mall.

Rebates... Lol, oh man. I think I probably got 20K worth of stuff free each rebate xD

Yeah, Chief was a loose cannon with sales, funny thing is his co-PM dmonster was completely the other extreme, with the philosophy that anything you can do without should be overpriced as much as possible (raising the price on orange books, thinking pet tags should be $5 per, etc.)

Looking back, it was kinda amazing how they kept going for that long, since iirc they also didn't value GS feedback on prices that highly (except for mine, but I don't merch so I'm not really the person they should ask anyway.)

Carecrow
November 22nd, 2014, 04:15 PM
Looking back, it was kinda amazing how they kept going for that long, since iirc they also didn't value GS feedback on prices that highly (except for mine, but I don't merch so I'm not really the person they should ask anyway.)

Because GSes were so economy savvy.

DOMOAKFrost
November 22nd, 2014, 04:19 PM
Because GSes were so economy savvy.

At least some of us thought chief was overflooding, but eh, sales targets.

KawaiiKneeGrow
November 22nd, 2014, 04:25 PM
I say nay!

WildAngelSK2
November 22nd, 2014, 04:42 PM
I want to emphasize on the rarity point. I remember when I first started playing DoMO and some of the costumes were very rare and in high demand. I farmed a long time just so I could afford the 500k Barbarian costume. I was incredibly proud to wear it around after that. However, a month later, promotions were spammed and costumes became just a common old thing.

Aeria had a bad habit of charging $25+ for a new item and then releasing it for 60% cheaper a week later. Rare items are meant to stay rare and coveted.

I think tiered weekend spenders would be great as long as they are at reasonable price for a reasonable value. However, because Suba doesn't know much about the items in DoMO, I would be worried about the way they handled it.

What do I want to see? I think that to start from, they should run promotions with just consumables. Badges, special mission tickets, orange books/tomes, scapegoat dolls, mallets, teleports, class springs, rez plates, etc etc. Maybe toss in some more common costumes. I know it's hard to decide what a "common costume" is, but there should be some that everyone can get their hands on easily (the Santa in all colors would be a good choice if the game is released before Christmas). BOGO's were great too. Those things were used up so fast that BOGO's were my favorite promos. Then maybe do an expensive tiered spender with exclusive items every few weeks to include the Saras, rare pets, and rare costumes.

What I don't want to see? Christmas instances spammed with true weapon coupons. Necklaces PERIOD. Tiered spenders above $50. Even that is pushing it. No mystery chests with items that have already been in tiered spenders and considered rare. Anything that is in a tiered spender and NT.

I hope the kickstarter thing isn't a preview of what we should expect though. $10 for two days of 50% exp and some vitamin pills is pretty terrible.. even as a bonus for a "donation".

LuLuNoir
November 22nd, 2014, 05:40 PM
I am liking all of your opinions so far! Thank you guys for the :3 opinions and sharing how you feel about the issue.

A few comments! I don't think costumes should ever go over 10$ a piece. Sorry. And even if they do the gacha box thing I don't believe the costume boxes should be over 5-10$ a piece. But I say put the run of the mill costumes in the cash shop at fair prices and then you can throw in the rare costumes into the boxes. But then I guess even with the rarer costumes you could always throw in the chance of getting a costume with a stat increase or like 10% hp. Blah blah.

Also I believe that nothing ever warrants spending over 50$ a week on a F2P MMORPG. LOL. I was so bad in AGs' DOMO. Dx Thank God for credit cards. Still paying on those by the way. :gusta:

About the point rebates that's really up in the air. You can do the bonuses or the rebates. One or the other. But if they choose to try both then they should do rebates only once a month if that. And no more than 50% back. They could also try setting up reoccurring paypal point purchases like 10-50$ a month and then adding on a certain percentage of extra points awarded. Like lets say you sign up for the reoccurring payments of 10$ a month so you get like 15% in extra points. It's nothing crazy but it provides incentive.

I'd also like to see a 1,000 sp or less shop. At 8.99$ for 10,000SP that roughly equals like 99 cents. HAHA I always appreciate those cheap stuff like NT crap or perhaps hair dye.

DOMOAKFrost
November 22nd, 2014, 05:47 PM
I am liking all of your opinions so far! Thank you guys for the :3 opinions and sharing how you feel about the issue.

A few comments! I don't think costumes should ever go over 10$ a piece. Sorry. And even if they do the gacha box thing I don't believe the costume boxes should be over 5-10$ a piece. But I say put the run of the mill costumes in the cash shop at fair prices and then you can throw in the rare costumes into the boxes. But then I guess even with the rarer costumes you could always throw in the chance of getting a costume with a stat increase or like 10% hp. Blah blah.

Also I believe that nothing ever warrants spending over 50$ a week on a F2P MMORPG. LOL. I was so bad in AGs' DOMO. Dx Thank God for credit cards. Still paying on those by the way. :gusta:

About the point rebates that's really up in the air. You can do the bonuses or the rebates. One or the other. But if they choose to try both then they should do rebates only once a month if that. And no more than 50% back. They could also try setting up reoccurring paypal point purchases like 10-50$ a month and then adding on a certain percentage of extra points awarded. Like lets say you sign up for the reoccurring payments of 10$ a month so you get like 15% in extra points. It's nothing crazy but it provides incentive.

I'd also like to see a 1,000 sp or less shop. At 8.99$ for 10,000SP that roughly equals like 99 cents. HAHA I always appreciate those cheap stuff like NT crap or perhaps hair dye.

50 a week is 200 a month. At an operating revenue of 100k a month, which is the low end, that's 500 customers.

kind of a stretch.

Gambachi
November 22nd, 2014, 05:47 PM
They might be new to DOMO but they certainly have had experience with the cash shops of other old games so I'm sure they do their homework. Just hope they don't start horrendously over pricing for stuff that is rare and make EA look like saints.

LuLuNoir
November 22nd, 2014, 05:49 PM
50 a week is 200 a month. At an operating revenue of 100k a month, which is the low end, that's 500 customers.

kind of a stretch.

Huh? Oh I was talking about my own bad spending habits. But I am sure there will be people shelling out thousands a month. LOL.

Squishington
November 22nd, 2014, 07:32 PM
This may have been touched on already, but I'd like to reiterate the importance of a distinct separation between in-game rewards and the item mall. For example, it was extremely irritating to farm instances for weeks and finally getting the perfect onyxes to finish off your equipment only to have Aeria turn around and sell said onyxes, or even better onyxes, in the item mall a few days later. I also never liked how they released inventory expansions that could be used in lieu of the expansions rewarded from the Eversun and Darkdale Elder quests, but this could just be chalked up to my personal preference of playing the game instead of buying my way to the top.

ArabPikachu
November 22nd, 2014, 08:46 PM
This may have been touched on already, but I'd like to reiterate the importance of a distinct separation between in-game rewards and the item mall. For example, it was extremely irritating to farm instances for weeks and finally getting the perfect onyxes to finish off your equipment only to have Aeria turn around and sell said onyxes, or even better onyxes, in the item mall a few days later. I also never liked how they released inventory expansions that could be used in lieu of the expansions rewarded from the Eversun and Darkdale Elder quests, but this could just be chalked up to my personal preference of playing the game instead of buying my way to the top.

Well that was Aeria. It was trying to squeeze out the last bit of cents out of the players. Hopefully Suba doesn't have to resort to this in the future.

Mitzruti
November 22nd, 2014, 09:36 PM
I'm not a fan of aeria's spend-ridiculous-amounts-get-a-shiny tiered spender crap. they put the costs for the tiers so high that only whales are going to seriously consider them... and that drives smaller wallets away (since the promos wind up being not-for-them). which is bad for the game in the long term.

otoh, a pseudosubcription thing where you get a shiny for dropping a more reasonable amount each monthish? could get people to check back in to the game to see if the most recent shiny is something they want to pick up.

ArabPikachu
November 22nd, 2014, 09:40 PM
I'm not a fan of aeria's spend-ridiculous-amounts-get-a-shiny tiered spender crap. they put the costs for the tiers so high that only whales are going to seriously consider them... and that drives smaller wallets away (since the promos wind up being not-for-them). which is bad for the game in the long term.

otoh, a pseudosubcription thing where you get a shiny for dropping a more reasonable amount each monthish? could get people to check back in to the game to see if the most recent shiny is something they want to pick up.

And the things they gave us weren't all that "shiny". Wait a few weeks and everyone's got them.

Loomynar
November 22nd, 2014, 11:14 PM
Ah, a system based on the principles of operant conditioning, with a fixed ratio schedule of reinforcement... *mumbles*
As long as it encourages spending, which is good to keep the server alive and the top tier rewards aren't too game breaking, I'd say yes

ArabPikachu
November 23rd, 2014, 01:05 AM
Ah, a system based on the principles of operant conditioning, with a fixed ratio schedule of reinforcement... *mumbles*
As long as it encourages spending, which is good to keep the server alive and the top tier rewards aren't too game breaking, I'd say yes

Exactly. As long as these promotions are fair in other words.

LuLuNoir
November 23rd, 2014, 08:42 PM
BUMP. lol.

Any other opinions? =o

CheanChan
November 23rd, 2014, 09:53 PM
I think it would be awesome o_O

LilKizuna
November 24th, 2014, 07:58 AM
Promotion on casual stuff is fine. Don't go crazy on selling OP stuff doh.

~Lil_Kizuna

Tricy
November 24th, 2014, 08:12 AM
I would like to see some sort of promotion system (tiered spenders) implemented by Suba. However, I'd like to think that they would do a better job at coming up with promotions than AG did (I'm looking at you, Chief). Since Suba is new to DOMO, they probably don't know much about what items are of value, how items work, what items are considered more desirable than others, etc. So, early Item Mall is probably going to be an experiment for them.

What I'd like to see, ideally, is:
- Consistent pricing of items
- Maintain the rarity of some items
- When something is marketed as "expensive, rare, wow!" make sure it stays that way, lest they piss off their customers (example: Permanent Saras, exclusive, super expensive, over $100 each. A few weeks later, they're in mystery boxes for .99 cents. Random chance, but I probably ended up with 10+ permanent Saras from a few dozen boxes)
- Variety, as opposed too a couple quick-sellers being pushed promo and promo again
- Prices within reason. Some items should be more expensive, exclusive than others. But $25 for a costume? Pushing it. I wouldn't pay that for a physical, fibrous t-shirt
- Space the promotions out, but keep them consistent. I remember when AG did promotions once a week. I would wait all week for the weekend tiered spender and it was always interesting enough to keep me spending (gold for AP). Then they just started throwing everything they could at us to make us spend as much as possible

But I have no idea how Suba runs their item mall.

Rebates... Lol, oh man. I think I probably got 20K worth of stuff free each rebate xD

You and AKFrost could lend them that helping hand at starting point. Try contact their Gm and bugg about the idea would be a good shoot

Carecrow
November 24th, 2014, 11:12 AM
You and AKFrost could lend them that helping hand at starting point. Try contact their Gm and bugg about the idea would be a good shoot

Dear Gracey,

Please "veto" necklaces.

ty

DOMOAKFrost
November 24th, 2014, 02:38 PM
Dear Gracey,

Please "veto" necklaces.

ty

but, what about all that money they could be making?

Biddykins
November 24th, 2014, 05:24 PM
While I personally don't enjoy tiered spending (except on the rare occasion), this would need to be overseen with a fine eye to make sure things don't go out of hand. Like others have said, the items need to be non-game breaking and I agree with it being more or less consumables. Permanent items just seem like too much and will eventually end up bad for Suba.

I could explain theoretically how this could bring the game down, but then that's just be going into business degree mode. : P So, I'll just leave it here

DevilInGlasses
November 24th, 2014, 05:58 PM
As much as I hated Aeria's tiered spender item mall feature, it's what kept DOMO afloat (Some people spending thousands a month cycling the tiers)

Having said that, that only worked because Aeria allowed pin trading. It would be best to ask a GM for clarity on rules regarding in-game trading of epins for currency (which facilitated a lot of the tier cycling) before passing judgement on tiered spenders themselves

LuLuNoir
November 26th, 2014, 03:51 PM
It's all about the incentive. This isn't charity. Or can I claim it on my taxes?

LadyOkamia
November 26th, 2014, 05:40 PM
I never liked the tiered spending.. I am one of those people who dont make a whole lot of money so I could never afford the good tiered stuff and it made me upset because then the majority of people in the game would have all the good stuff and I would not @_@ Also it messed up the Market because all that would sell or those tiered items... Like pets/costumes etc. So whatever I tried to sell and I sold my things cheaper then anyone in the Market no one would buy cause it was not Mall items etc.

The rebates were okay thought I thought it was nice for them to give you some money back after spending a lot but the only people who really got an advantage of this were the very rich players of Domo. But Money is required to pay for servers so I guess I can't say much.

MlyrinSauvelle
January 12th, 2015, 09:57 PM
I didn't play very long on domo, didn't get much further than level 40, so I'm not too familiar with the economy and how ag's cash shop worked. I have seen some good cash shops. So my opinions are based on those

I'm okay with rebates, but sales and whatnot have to be very controlled. Also they're no good if there isn't an insane amount of cash shop content.

For example, in league of legends, they have different tiers of skins. from cheap to legendary. Legendary skins cost about 16$ each and they have a lot of that comes in that package. Those things never go on sale. Never. They also have promotional skins that people could only get in very rare circumstances. Those can't be bought. Having them feels good. It feels... real good.

Every other skin has different pricing tiers (5, 7, 9, 13 bucks) and they do go on sale from 90% to 35% off. When they're at 90% off it's because they're old and unpopular and they wanna remove them from the cash shop. Once removed, they're themed it as vault skins. They're locked up in the vault and you can't get them. You got some rare stuff on your hands suddenly. Feels good.

Sometimes they do seasonal sales that you can get those skins for a limited time. The people who originally bought those things don't get shafted though because when they originally sold them at the start they got extra stuff with their old skins (in game icons, item re-skins, etc). Also the rebates for these limited re-releases aren't as cheap as when they went into discontinuation. So the old clients are happy and the new clients are happy. Everyone feels real good.

An important point to remember here is that there's an insane amount of content available for purchase. And they all have different appeals too. So part of the reason why the sales don't piss anyone off is because of that. Every purchase stays satisfying to the individual that got it regardless of pricing. It appeals to their personality. So you feel mostly unique and you don't have clones of yourself running around all the time. When it does happen that someone has the same look as you, you don't feel alienated. You think they have good taste. So it's important that the cash shop doesn't poop out the same stuff over and over again like some crazed locust swarm. The sales don't happen shortly after the content settled into the market either. Takes a few months to happen.


So i'm all for rebates if they don't half ass it and don't start doing that too early in the local economy's lifetime and they actuly do it very rarely and for a short duration on a limited selection of content that has already settled into the economy and only after a long period of time has passed since that settlement. They need someone or a team dedicated to planning that basically.



Outside of aesthetic stuff, I'm fine with pay to win stuff if it's possible to get said content from grinding too. It has to be very rewarding to just buy it compared to the amount of time spent grinding for it though. But it can't be more rewarding than the grinding. It has to appeal to different user bases. Impatient people just throw money at stuff, patient people will grind for it. Some people might get get sick of grinding and cave in when a sale happens finally(sweet sweet relief). I fall into the later category btw. ;D

It can be stuff that helps you rush to the end game stuff, but it shouldn't be necessary. It can even be the actual end game stuff, but the end game stuff should not be accessible only in the cash shop. Certain limitations of said end game cash shop items would probably raise community satisfaction. For example you can't upgrade end game equipment that you buy in the cash store. You can buy upgrade mats in the cash shop, but you still need to grind to get the end game content that can be upgraded. Stuff like that. The cash shop shouldn't be a one stop answer to every wall a player might face in their game progression.

If the game is built with an intentional progression wall that funnels people to the store, it kills the fun and just adds to the community dissatisfaction. That makes the game un-fun. So it's important that the devs ask themselves "will this "system" make the game un-fun for people".

So if you can't progress normally into the end game without cash shop items, the game is unbalanced and unfair.

If everything is properly balanced and not funneled into the cash shop progression cop-out, rebates will probably alright for those items too. Again, with limited selection of items that are already settled into the economy.

in short: rebates are cool if there's a large selection of widely/nichely appealing content that don't ruin gameplay based progression. It's better if they are properly timed and the economy is taken into consideration at all times. Don't just poop those rebates out every time someone farts. No sweeping(on a wide selection of content) rebates if you do poop out fart activated rebates.

EnochP
January 13th, 2015, 04:47 AM
To be honest I've nothing against costumes being 10 dollars

Maybe do a 5 dollar non-trade able and 15 dollar trade able?

Consumables, of course should be less. But I don't know, I was too young at the time to really appreciate/notice money. I was a crafty bugger so managed to make almost all of my money from merchanting. I think I spent like $10 in-game but had over 100 assorted costume pieces

NotHereCantDelete
January 13th, 2015, 05:42 AM
I'm gonna have to remind people to not be a necromancer (be a Pepsimancer!).. Last post before this was November 26th so I'm gonna go ahead and lock this, if you want to continue it start a new thread. I wont delete the posts though 'cos it's clear a lot of time went into it.