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OmgZombieCharm
December 7th, 2014, 08:19 PM
So hi guys. How you've been?

I was looking for a "Job Build" thread cuz i made a BM and a Wiz a while back (when the traitors (Aeriagames)had the game on their hands) and i wanted to make a PRO build cuz i never learned to do it properly.
So i want all the small GS overe here to tellme what you think the best build is. (for any job you want)

Post the Build as a coment and like the builds you think are good, the builds with more likes i will put them on here (Below) so all the new players (and old jerks that forgot how to build their own jobs... not me offcourse :'c... OK YES ITS ME!) can start a little bit easyer (and reduce the number of ZombieCharms... i mean... Noobs...) on the jobs that they choose.

I would put my wiz build, ejem, but i want to know your build (Yeah, of course)


-------------------------------BUILDS----------------------------------------


Empty :'(

DOMOAKFrost
December 7th, 2014, 08:35 PM
What's a small GS.

Kirbychu
December 7th, 2014, 08:37 PM
You can't edit your post after a certain amount of time, so adding builds to your first post isn't possible...unless you're a forum mod or something...it's the one thing I don't like about these forums lol.

As for builds, I have a few, but they aren't like the absolute BEST builds to use...just what I personally have used.

For AoE DPS:
2 wis 1 dex until 28 dex
2 wis 1 agi per level (or pure wis)

For Doctor:
pure wis or 2 wis 1 agi

Musician:
2 wis 1 agi

Dancer:
2 agi 1 wis or 2 agi 1 power

Blademaster:
28 dex
2 agi 1 power or 2 power 1 agi per level

Tanks:
2 dura 1 agi

Thief:
2 agi 1 dex until 28 dex
pure agi until 103
dump rest into dex or power

Hunter:
if I'm not subbing tank, I do power, dex, and agi - usually one each per level. Not sure how good that build is though.

Again these are just builds I've used in the past. I'm sure other people out there have tested out other builds and found some that work better than mine.

OmgZombieCharm
December 7th, 2014, 09:32 PM
What's a small GS.

Remember the GS/GameSages? Well i think none of us was an actuall GS but i bet a lot of you deserve that rank. So you would be Small GS :)

Carecrow
December 7th, 2014, 09:45 PM
You can't edit your post after a certain amount of time, so adding builds to your first post isn't possible...unless you're a forum mod or something...it's the one thing I don't like about these forums lol.

As for builds, I have a few, but they aren't like the absolute BEST builds to use...just what I personally have used.

For AoE DPS:
2 wis 1 dex until 28 dex
2 wis 1 agi per level (or pure wis)

For Doctor:
pure wis or 2 wis 1 agi

Musician:
2 wis 1 agi

Dancer:
2 agi 1 wis or 2 agi 1 power

Blademaster:
28 dex
2 agi 1 power or 2 power 1 agi per level

Tanks:
2 dura 1 agi

Thief:
2 agi 1 dex until 28 dex
pure agi until 103
dump rest into dex or power

Hunter:
if I'm not subbing tank, I do power, dex, and agi - usually one each per level. Not sure how good that build is though.

Again these are just builds I've used in the past. I'm sure other people out there have tested out other builds and found some that work better than mine.


Recommended stat builds are on the wiki. Thought they were looking for skill builds.

DOMOAKFrost
December 7th, 2014, 09:48 PM
For the most part I just go 3 agi on all jobs, until 103 agi, then the rest depends on what job it is.


Remember the GS/GameSages? Well i think none of us was an actuall GS but i bet a lot of you deserve that rank. So you would be Small GS :)



I'm laughing too hard to be insulted atm.

OmgZombieCharm
December 7th, 2014, 10:15 PM
For the most part I just go 3 agi on all jobs, until 103 agi, then the rest depends on what job it is.



I'm laughing too hard to be insulted atm.

:'( You Evil!

DOMOAKFrost
December 7th, 2014, 10:56 PM
:'( You Evil!

how am I evil.

FoxyFi
December 7th, 2014, 11:03 PM
how am I evil.

I assume for this reason

https://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1pbm9MoFO1rsvwibo1_500.gif

DOMOAKFrost
December 7th, 2014, 11:09 PM
I assume for this reason

https://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1pbm9MoFO1rsvwibo1_500.gif

What's a Villian?

LuLuNoir
December 7th, 2014, 11:26 PM
Lemons you say? I do love lemonade. :evil:

LuLuNoir
December 7th, 2014, 11:27 PM
What's a Villian?

A villain is almost every ugly person in every Disney movie ever made. LOL

Kirbychu
December 7th, 2014, 11:39 PM
A villain is almost every ugly person in every Disney movie ever made. LOL

I think he was making fun of whoever spelled villain wrong.

MinatoU
December 8th, 2014, 04:00 AM
Full Pow or full Wis on everything

LadyOkamia
December 8th, 2014, 04:34 AM
For the most part I just go 3 agi on all jobs, until 103 agi, then the rest depends on what job it is.



I'm laughing too hard to be insulted atm.

How did you do enough damage with just all Agi? I was thinking about starting Dancer like I did last time I think I built Wis and Power but man I don't remember. I think Agi was important for Dancer but I had no idea what I was doing back then XD!

Carecrow
December 8th, 2014, 08:07 AM
How did you do enough damage with just all Agi? I was thinking about starting Dancer like I did last time I think I built Wis and Power but man I don't remember. I think Agi was important for Dancer but I had no idea what I was doing back then XD!

Some jobs gain attack per agility point spent in agility - jobs like dancer & thief gain more atk per agi than most. I assume he goes to 103 to max cooldown reduction (a lot of common builds end up with 103 agility). Not sure if it's the best thing to do on every job though.

FoxyFi
December 8th, 2014, 09:18 AM
What's a Villian?

Lemons. It says right there. :-)

EnochP
December 8th, 2014, 09:31 AM
I don't even remember what skillpoints did. I didn't even remember DOMO having them. How's it work again? Do you have attributes per class or for your overall charachter?

I think I went with the one that improved casting speed and evasion. Agi? Pure that until it hit the cap

DOMOAKFrost
December 8th, 2014, 12:04 PM
How did you do enough damage with just all Agi? I was thinking about starting Dancer like I did last time I think I built Wis and Power but man I don't remember. I think Agi was important for Dancer but I had no idea what I was doing back then XD!

You can't reduce cooldown with anything other than agi, so there's no real reason to not go 103 agi on any job.

power and wisdom gives so little attack it's not really even comparable.

OmgZombieCharm
December 8th, 2014, 12:48 PM
We shall keep it on the jobs topic and leave the lemons aside.

SirPwn
December 8th, 2014, 01:45 PM
How did you do enough damage with just all Agi?
Having 103 agi reduces your cooldowns by 30% (or was it 33%? I can't remember..) which basically means that you get 3 skills off in the same amount of time others land 2. This means a 50% potential increase in damage dealt. Of course, agi gives less atk/m.atk than pow/wis (and in the case of BM it gives 0 atk), so the net gain is probably a fair bit lower. Still a nice damage boost though, with zero buffs required!

DOMOAKFrost
December 8th, 2014, 01:56 PM
Having 103 agi reduces your cooldowns by 30% (or was it 33%? I can't remember..) which basically means that you get 3 skills off in the same amount of time others land 2. This means a 50% potential increase in damage dealt. Of course, agi gives less atk/m.atk than pow/wis (and in the case of BM it gives 0 atk), so the net gain is probably a fair bit lower. Still a nice damage boost though, with zero buffs required!

actually, because how damage works in this game, one point of attack is 1 point of damage, and skills are scaled proportionally to atk/defense.

So unless you have a magic attack of around 100 or a physical attack of around 200, which is pitiful by most standards, your DPS will always be less with 103 pow or wis compared to agi.

Even ASPD on BM will benefit more from agi, because higher levels of Aim has longer CD than duration.

Carecrow
December 8th, 2014, 02:01 PM
actually, because how damage works in this game, one point of attack is 1 point of damage, and skills are scaled proportionally to atk/defense.

So unless you have a magic attack of around 100 or a physical attack of around 200, which is pitiful by most standards, your DPS will always be less with 103 pow or wis compared to agi.

Even ASPD on BM will benefit more from agi, because higher levels of Aim has longer CD than duration.

It didn't really seem to pan out that way for BM, since you have other buffs to fill the cooldown time. 103 agi BMs certainly weren't common.

DOMOAKFrost
December 8th, 2014, 02:06 PM
It didn't really seem to pan out that way for BM, since you have other buffs to fill the cooldown time. 103 agi BMs certainly weren't common.

depends heavily on gear level. You can afford to shift more points into agi the more base attack buffs you get.

If you can keep aim up, you can use dragon over wolf for better dps.

Carecrow
December 8th, 2014, 02:13 PM
depends heavily on gear level. You can afford to shift more points into agi the more base attack buffs you get.

If you can keep aim up, you can use dragon over wolf for better dps.

How does going 103 agility then power work as an efficient leveling strategy then?

SirPwn
December 8th, 2014, 02:15 PM
Even ASPD on BM will benefit more from agi, because higher levels of Aim has longer CD than duration.
It is true that 103 agi does let you keep up level 4 Aim (almost) indefinitely, and level 4+ of All-Out Assault as well. That said, not putting 103 points into pow on BM means missing out on 309 base attack. That is quite substantial. I myself would probably still opt for full pow BM, but it is literally the only job where I don't prefer agi. It's just 'special' like that.

DOMOAKFrost
December 8th, 2014, 02:20 PM
How does going 103 agility then power work as an efficient leveling strategy then?

it gives evade so you can pull better?

I mean, if I ever get to BM (looking unlikely at this point), i fully intend to either fence or pull, neither of which pow serves much of a purpose.

DOMOAKFrost
December 8th, 2014, 02:23 PM
It is true that 103 agi does let you keep up level 4 Aim (almost) indefinitely, and level 4+ of All-Out Assault as well. That said, not putting 103 points into pow on BM means missing out on 309 base attack. That is quite substantial. I myself would probably still opt for full pow BM, but it is literally the only job where I don't prefer agi. It's just 'special' like that.

assuming this game continues enough for you to consider wasting sums of money into modding, 309 hurts less and less.

If you can get to around 1k base fully buffed, you net a gain at 103.

Carecrow
December 8th, 2014, 02:23 PM
it gives evade so you can pull better?

I mean, if I ever get to BM (looking unlikely at this point), i fully intend to either fence or pull, neither of which pow serves much of a purpose.

Ew, teamwork.

DOMOAKFrost
December 8th, 2014, 02:25 PM
Ew, teamwork.

are you going to lend me your dgold set and sara so I don't have to?

Maiii
December 8th, 2014, 02:28 PM
are you going to lend me your dgold set and sara so I don't have to?

He might if you join the guild :awsum:

Disclaimer: I'm not responsible for any destruction that occurs after this post.

LilKizuna
December 8th, 2014, 02:30 PM
He might if you join the guild :awsum:

Disclaimer: I'm not responsible for any destruction that occurs after this post.

Its a trap meng, dunt do et.

~Lil_Kizuna

DOMOAKFrost
December 8th, 2014, 07:23 PM
He might if you join the guild :awsum:

Disclaimer: I'm not responsible for any destruction that occurs after this post.

no thanks. If I had a mil I'd pay for plevel.

KashyDragneel
December 9th, 2014, 04:37 AM
on the subject of power leveling, do you think anyone will lvl witch doctor first with the purpose of power lvling other?

DOMOAKFrost
December 9th, 2014, 05:01 AM
on the subject of power leveling, do you think anyone will lvl witch doctor first with the purpose of power lvling other?

you mean the jumboa thing? It's only reasonably effective up to 30 or so. After that not really.

I don't think it makes sense to level wd for that.

KashyDragneel
December 9th, 2014, 05:03 AM
I certainly won't be doing it, just an idea that popped into my head, and wondered if anyone else had thought about it

Carecrow
December 9th, 2014, 05:06 AM
Would probably just be plvling on doc with merc sub

DOMOAKFrost
December 9th, 2014, 05:08 AM
I certainly won't be doing it, just an idea that popped into my head, and wondered if anyone else had thought about it

ive seen it done. thing is with only stalling and hundred step, it's not exactly fast.

I've gotten better results just stacking agi and sword aoe with a 60 doc/muse supporting me.

MSubaa
December 9th, 2014, 05:30 AM
Hmmmm i think 50 agi is enough for DPS to make you servive on all the mobs atk that what i used on my character m2010sms

Lokina
December 9th, 2014, 09:14 AM
I will push through lvling a doctor first, more then likely.
However, I will focus in frogs and so, I doubt it will be very good for groups.

So I have to do it solo and so, be a pain in the arsh.

LoIcatKumi
December 9th, 2014, 05:42 PM
I had posted my Roleplay builds guide, but I didn't kept it...
(and maybe it's better for the whole humanity this way >_>...)

OmgZombieCharm
December 10th, 2014, 04:18 PM
I had posted my Roleplay builds guide, but I didn't kept it...
(and maybe it's better for the whole humanity this way >_>...)

I would love to see it... A link plz? :)

OmgZombieCharm
December 10th, 2014, 04:20 PM
Would probably just be plvling on doc with merc sub

You sound Verly like a pro!... How would you build a Doc and Wiz? Those are the main 2 jobs i plan to start with. (Doc first till hit LvL30 and then Wiz :p)

Carecrow
December 10th, 2014, 04:35 PM
You sound Verly like a pro!... How would you build a Doc and Wiz? Those are the main 2 jobs i plan to start with. (Doc first till hit LvL30 and then Wiz :p)

Croakus for subbing onto wizard. Seasonal from shaman or different dances from dancer as second sub.

Kitababie
December 10th, 2014, 09:00 PM
so all the new players (and old jerks that forgot how to build their own jobs... can start a little bit easyer

:confused: Guess I'm an old jerk too cause I don't remember the builds either lol. I actually completely forgot we had them. :COOL:

Dyyn
December 10th, 2014, 09:53 PM
Croakus for subbing onto wizard. Seasonal from shaman or different dances from dancer as second sub.

I always preferred the other Doctor tree because the heals had shorter cooldowns. Seasonal from Shaman is helpful to act as in-between spells for the Wiz spells with longer cooldowns.

Wiz has a meaty MP pool so you could always sub pet songs from Musician and nuke things with a Ruby, Sapphire, or Rock.

Carecrow
December 10th, 2014, 11:59 PM
I always preferred the other Doctor tree because the heals had shorter cooldowns. Seasonal from Shaman is helpful to act as in-between spells for the Wiz spells with longer cooldowns.

Wiz has a meaty MP pool so you could always sub pet songs from Musician and nuke things with a Ruby, Sapphire, or Rock.

Crokus is mostly for the buffs (especially yin) & soup

Miradora
December 11th, 2014, 12:02 AM
Soup of Self Preservation and Yin Frog from Croakus make it so even if your magic damage is subpar compared to phys at high level, at least you are most likely capping that damage with the debuff, plus you get so many other nice buffs that help with survivability and uptime on the side. Downside is that you pretty much need to use all 30 springs if you still want to get stuff on the medi side too, with that many points invested into frogs..

I also recommend Seasonal and Diff Dances, I used one or the other as my second sub depending on what I was doing. For farming on a Wizard you could ditch the doc sub altogether and use both seasonals and diff dances.

If you think 103 agi is more than you want to commit to, 34 agi is 10% cd reduction and 68 agi is 20% cd reduction. Getting 103 agi can tank your heal power into the ground unless you level to 75 to balance it out, since heal power is basically only increased by wis (and seemingly at fixed amounts of wis, not a linear growth with each point of wis), level, and those small + heal power bonuses from syringe gold effects, doc passive, syringe charm etc. Full wis has the most powerful heals, but your cooldowns will suck, so you would need good timing to go that way. So you can get frequent weaker heals or infrequent powerful ones, depending on your taste and style.

I think an agi heavy doc may be preferred for the new raids on IC, but for general use you can probably go either way you prefer for your playstyle and ability.

Mythyc's Wis vs. Agi Doctor Heals Thread (http://domo.lotusgoddess.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5)

DOMOAKFrost
December 11th, 2014, 12:02 AM
I always preferred the other Doctor tree because the heals had shorter cooldowns. Seasonal from Shaman is helpful to act as in-between spells for the Wiz spells with longer cooldowns.

Wiz has a meaty MP pool so you could always sub pet songs from Musician and nuke things with a Ruby, Sapphire, or Rock.

What are you doing that necessitates so much healing to begin with?

Dyyn
December 11th, 2014, 01:19 AM
What are you doing that necessitates so much healing to begin with?

Now that I think about it, I wasn't healing enough to really necessitate the faster First Aid. The buffs from Croakus along with Soup probably would have helped a lot. My main issue was that there's a Syringe requirement for the really important skills from Croakus and I'm somewhat lazy and don't like to switch weapons a lot (even if it can be hotkeyed). Plus, Inner Magic was usually my method of MP regen as I didn't utilize 103 agi builds.

Carecrow
December 11th, 2014, 01:23 AM
Now that I think about it, I wasn't healing enough to really necessitate the faster First Aid. The buffs from Croakus along with Soup probably would have helped a lot. My main issue was that there's a Syringe requirement for the really important skills from Croakus and I'm somewhat lazy and don't like to switch weapons a lot (even if it can be hotkeyed). Plus, Inner Magic was usually my method of MP regen as I didn't utilize 103 agi builds.

Mating Dance was better MP recovery than inner magic anyway, if you have enough wisdom. Otherwise there is converter.

Dyyn
December 11th, 2014, 01:26 AM
Mating Dance was better MP recovery than inner magic anyway, if you have enough wisdom. Otherwise there is converter.

Aye, it was, but I only focused on Dancer during the latter part of my DoMO career. I'll definitely be focusing on it more this time around, as it's an incredibly fun class.

TheRealTangerine
December 11th, 2014, 04:54 AM
Mating Dance was better MP recovery than inner magic anyway, if you have enough wisdom. Otherwise there is converter.

Is there like a magical number of Wisdom that makes Mating better than Inner? And is it the target's Wisdom that counts or your own? (Seeing as you can cast it on another person...)

Edit:
S

I think an agi heavy doc may be preferred for the new raids on IC, but for general use you can probably go either way you prefer for your playstyle and ability.

Mythyc's Wis vs. Agi Doctor Heals Thread (http://domo.lotusgoddess.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5)

Which new raids? *.*

Carecrow
December 11th, 2014, 05:02 AM
Is there like a magical number of Wisdom that makes Mating better than Inner? And is it the target's Wisdom that counts or your own? (Seeing as you can cast it on another person...)


Probably not, since it works off your standing MP recovery. Didn't mess around with MP recovery much, because necklaces had already kicked in by the point I had time for it. I imagine inner would be better at lower levels since it's a fixed amount. I 'think' it works off the target's MP recovery rate.

MinatoU
December 11th, 2014, 05:19 AM
Yes Mating Dance is amazing for a support class to use in a duo (You can pretty much only use it on 1 or 2 people at a time) it's usually better than Inner Magic and comes in the same skillset as the dancer debuffs, it saves the damage dealer from having a sub to increase mp recovery so it's perfect

I still prefer Inner Magic for solo since it comes with healing skills

Nethys
December 12th, 2014, 02:48 AM
Is there like a magical number of Wisdom that makes Mating better than Inner?

I honestly have no idea how MP regen scales with wisdom, but there is a magical number for the amount of MP regen. If you have over 19mp/5sec standing mp recovery, then Mating Dance will be better, assuming both are at max level.

OmgZombieCharm
December 12th, 2014, 11:18 AM
Croakus for subbing onto wizard. Seasonal from shaman or different dances from dancer as second sub.

Yeah, but the stats build man! The stats! :p

Carecrow
December 12th, 2014, 12:59 PM
Yeah, but the stats build man! The stats! :p


If MP is not an issue, 103 agility, rest wisdom for both.

Without a necklace MP will be an issue on wizard, if you're spamming as many skills as you should be with that much agility.. so I guess 58 agility, rest wisdom.

Tonkatam
December 12th, 2014, 02:29 PM
If MP is not an issue, 103 agility, rest wisdom for both.

Without a necklace MP will be an issue on wizard, if you're spamming as many skills as you should be with that much agility.. so I guess 58 agility, rest wisdom.

it is the best post in this topic.i think this is the main idea and the main problem for the wizard the MP and MP regen.

i tested everything on my wizard so i can say full wisdom the best thing for the wizard.

DOMOAKFrost
December 12th, 2014, 02:37 PM
Mating Dance was better MP recovery than inner magic anyway, if you have enough wisdom. Otherwise there is converter.

Mating Dance is only better if someone else casts it on you (hence "mating" dance). It has a far higher startup cost and lower duration.


it is the best post in this topic.i think this is the main idea and the main problem for the wizard the MP and MP regen.

i tested everything on my wizard so i can say full wisdom the best thing for the wizard.

Only if you're broke.

http://i62.tinypic.com/kf172s.png

Tell me how full wis would be better in this.

Carecrow
December 12th, 2014, 02:43 PM
Mating Dance is only better if someone else casts it on you (hence "mating" dance). It has a far higher startup cost and lower duration.

I thought it worked out better, casting cost included. Could've been full wisdom at the time though.



Tell me how full wis would be better in this.

When you have 0 MP in a prolonged fight and full wisdom doesn't?

DOMOAKFrost
December 12th, 2014, 03:15 PM
I thought it worked out better, casting cost included. Could've been full wisdom at the time though.




When you have 0 MP in a prolonged fight and full wisdom doesn't?

from memory, you need more than 9 base smpr to even match inner's rate, and mating is 300 duration vs inner's 360.

This is to say nothing of CC which is better than im anyway.

Also, if you can afford that getup, no excuses not to get necks or MP pills. you'll run out of MP on full wis anyway if you just spam rolling thunder on CD, to say nothing of other spells.

Carecrow
December 12th, 2014, 03:23 PM
Also, if you can afford that getup, no excuses not to get necks or MP pills. you'll run out of MP on full wis anyway if you just spam rolling thunder on CD, to say nothing of other spells.

Assuming we have access to everything we had on Aeria. Necklaces would probably be a higher ongoing cost than anything else on wizard. I required at least two of them at once with 103 agility.

Dyyn
December 12th, 2014, 03:29 PM
Is it even worth it to have that kind of upkeep cost?

I guess if you're after non-stop leveling, it is, but for raids your MP should be maintained decently via muse and when leveling you'd just have to take breaks.

Carecrow
December 12th, 2014, 03:43 PM
Is it even worth it to have that kind of upkeep cost?

I guess if you're after non-stop leveling, it is, but for raids your MP should be maintained decently via muse and when leveling you'd just have to take breaks.

In early raids (when people didn't have necklaces, and actually still used wizards), they would usually end up sitting to regain MP mid-raid, even with a muse.

DOMOAKFrost
December 12th, 2014, 03:54 PM
Is it even worth it to have that kind of upkeep cost?

I guess if you're after non-stop leveling, it is, but for raids your MP should be maintained decently via muse and when leveling you'd just have to take breaks.

even with full wisdom (aka the slowest cd possible), a wizard firing off everything can burn in the neighborhood of 2000 mp a minute. Only necks can make up for that.

The few times i raided on live i just brought diff dances for boss and circle kited the adds. Never bothered to hit the boss.

Carecrow
December 12th, 2014, 03:59 PM
even with full wisdom (aka the slowest cd possible), a wizard firing off everything can burn in the neighborhood of 2000 mp a minute. Only necks can make up for that.

The few times i raided on live i just brought diff dances for boss and circle kited the adds. Never bothered to hit the boss.

Cynie and Mythyc used to take MVP sometimes, pre-necklaces, that was even with sitting. At least full wisdom means less sitting. I don't think anyone would argue that you can't do more damage overall with agility and limitless MP.

DOMOAKFrost
December 12th, 2014, 04:06 PM
Cynie and Mythyc used to take MVP sometimes, pre-necklaces, that was even with sitting. At least full wisdom means less sitting. I don't think anyone would argue that you can't do more damage overall with agility and limitless MP.

dunno about cynie, but mythyc was always 58 agi for pvp.

Well, that was pre-cfury, and no wd for martial hex either.

Dyyn
December 12th, 2014, 04:26 PM
Why does SoftStar hate casters? IIRC, casters were the overpowered ones during the P2P era.

DOMOAKFrost
December 12th, 2014, 04:33 PM
Why does SoftStar hate casters? IIRC, casters were the overpowered ones during the P2P era.

not caster, fencer.

Dyyn
December 12th, 2014, 04:46 PM
not caster, fencer.

Orrite.

Were the fencers physical builds or magic builds?

DOMOAKFrost
December 12th, 2014, 04:50 PM
Orrite.

Were the fencers physical builds or magic builds?

magic.

But fencer was also durable and whatever, don't remember what the guides said exactly.

Dyyn
December 12th, 2014, 04:53 PM
magic.

But fencer was also durable and whatever, don't remember what the guides said exactly.

Do you know how SoftStar tweaked the classes to make physical classes like BM the clear front-runners?

Carecrow
December 12th, 2014, 04:57 PM
Do you know how SoftStar tweaked the classes to make physical classes like BM the clear front-runners?

Damage caps & modding system

LoIcatKumi
December 12th, 2014, 05:07 PM
I would love to see it... A link plz? :)

Sorry didn't followed the thread.
Somewhere on Aeria and GT forum... 4 years ago
*hides*

Maybe i'll make a second edition of it when my memories of DOMO about planning skills will all be back.(orrr if I'm really bored because I spent 4 days on it last time).

DOMOAKFrost
December 12th, 2014, 05:11 PM
Do you know how SoftStar tweaked the classes to make physical classes like BM the clear front-runners?

martial hex. Buffs are cheap to begin with and normal attacks are fast and MP free.

physical skills are cheap and fast. Arrow alchemy is 2 sec CD and still manages to beat rolling thunder at mp cost. RT is also capped at 50k base damage. Arrow Alchemy is 3.5x attack-defense, so you only need about 500 more attack than the enemy's defense to also outdamage RT.

Sophe
December 12th, 2014, 05:17 PM
Gilfe me 50000 Gold

Tonkatam
December 13th, 2014, 01:02 AM
Mating Dance is only better if someone else casts it on you (hence "mating" dance). It has a far higher startup cost and lower duration.



Only if you're broke.

http://i62.tinypic.com/kf172s.png

Tell me how full wis would be better in this.

sorry u put pic for super super char.spent so much money to make it. 100% regen from full dg armor while standing and onyx number 4 in the wand to regen mp and if you sub in the passive shaman skills for ying yang transform with any regen skill like converter or inner with 8k mp and 2k magic attack yes u dont need full wisdom.

but how many of players will be as the pic that u put?

Dyyn
December 13th, 2014, 01:08 AM
sorry u put pic for super super char.spent so much money to make it. 100% regen from full dg armor while standing and onyx number 4 in the wand to regen mp and if you sub in the passive shaman skills for ying yang transform with any regen skill like converter or inner with 8k mp and 2k magic attack yes u dont need full wisdom.

but how many of players will be as the pic that u put?

If you can't afford that build you should probably either git gud or quit domo altogether tbh

DOMOAKFrost
December 13th, 2014, 01:17 AM
sorry u put pic for super super char.spent so much money to make it. 100% regen from full dg armor while standing and onyx number 4 in the wand to regen mp and if you sub in the passive shaman skills for ying yang transform with any regen skill like converter or inner with 8k mp and 2k magic attack yes u dont need full wisdom.

but how many of players will be as the pic that u put?

You gave no support to your claim of why someone might go full wis vs 103 agi or 58 agi or any other build, instead you just said vaguely that "you tested". Great, I tested too, and I got the complete opposite result of you.

The tradeoff between agi and wis has been well debated and documented, and the general trend is the stronger you are, the more sense it makes to shift points to agi. In fact, just damage wise, 50% more skills casted > 50 more matk at an a measely 100 matk.

CC, the best MP regen for wizard, also benefits enormously from agi because at 103 it's more or less up all the time vs up only 2/3rds of the time. Agi also gives you evasion and magic evasion which are defensive, as well as faster access to buffs and heals, none of which you even attempted to analyze, and instead just expects everyone to take your claim of full wis as gospel?

In fact, the value of agi and wis also depends immensely on the economy. On Aeria where restats were 40k a piece, full wisdom is fine until you get stronger. On IC where a restats has once costed upwards of 4 mil? Do you really want to be set back that much in gold when you decide you're too strong for full wis already?

Also, FYI, getting MP regen out of an initial mod is neither expensive nor uncommon. You don't have to have to reach 2000 matk before deciding full wis is a bad idea.

Tonkatam
December 13th, 2014, 04:55 AM
You gave no support to your claim of why someone might go full wis vs 103 agi or 58 agi or any other build, instead you just said vaguely that "you tested". Great, I tested too, and I got the complete opposite result of you.

The tradeoff between agi and wis has been well debated and documented, and the general trend is the stronger you are, the more sense it makes to shift points to agi. In fact, just damage wise, 50% more skills casted > 50 more matk at an a measely 100 matk.

CC, the best MP regen for wizard, also benefits enormously from agi because at 103 it's more or less up all the time vs up only 2/3rds of the time. Agi also gives you evasion and magic evasion which are defensive, as well as faster access to buffs and heals, none of which you even attempted to analyze, and instead just expects everyone to take your claim of full wis as gospel?

In fact, the value of agi and wis also depends immensely on the economy. On Aeria where restats were 40k a piece, full wisdom is fine until you get stronger. On IC where a restats has once costed upwards of 4 mil? Do you really want to be set back that much in gold when you decide you're too strong for full wis already?

Also, FYI, getting MP regen out of an initial mod is neither expensive nor uncommon. You don't have to have to reach 2000 matk before deciding full wis is a bad idea.

you are the one that didnot answer how would u deal when you are in long fight as raid or strong boss and you throw fast your less mp bar than the full wisdom less magic attack and no any recovery for your mp?

if you are rich and depend on necklaces then it is ok if you arenot here is the problem.

to be honest the only benefit is the converter cd but even this doesnt help.

and yes i tested the both builds on my wizard . full wisdom allow me to kill any boss except the wolf in mount babel.

103 agi found myself run from king noisy snake on wizard so i donot die coz of no mp the same equip the same armor.

solo garnet on wizard use 1 mp pill with one time only necklace on full wisdom. solo garnet with the same equip and armor on 103 agi found myself burn my mp necklace .

anyways it is depend on your way to play the game and if you can burn mp necklaces easily with mp pills or no.

the last question and this one too u didnot answer how many of players that got 2k magic attack? or evevn 1.2 k magic attack?

this isnot the general trend as you said its up normal.

TheRealTangerine
December 13th, 2014, 06:32 AM
not caster, fencer.

How did they nerf Fencer? :)

Mitzruti
December 13th, 2014, 08:22 AM
martial hex. Buffs are cheap to begin with and normal attacks are fast and MP free.

physical skills are cheap and fast. Arrow alchemy is 2 sec CD and still manages to beat rolling thunder at mp cost. RT is also capped at 50k base damage. Arrow Alchemy is 3.5x attack-defense, so you only need about 500 more attack than the enemy's defense to also outdamage RT.

don't you think it's a bit dishonest to compare hunter's best spam skill with one of the wizard's worst skills?

LadyinSpades
December 13th, 2014, 11:34 AM
1 wisdom 1 agility is Fun on musician , It's great to keep sonic swiping ( with 2 autos between) and be able to take down a Blade master. It's like... Sona!

DOMOAKFrost
December 13th, 2014, 12:25 PM
don't you think it's a bit dishonest to compare hunter's best spam skill with one of the wizard's worst skills?

they're both 3rd best.

MrHikadaToYou
December 13th, 2014, 01:37 PM
Pure agility MA so every fight takes 10 minutes and no one can ever hit anything.

Zephrom
December 13th, 2014, 06:51 PM
Pure agility MA so every fight takes 10 minutes and no one can ever hit anything.

dance-off pvp? or just "mob clubbing"?

Mitzruti
December 13th, 2014, 10:29 PM
3rd best at what? definitely not dps or mana-efficency - all of the wizards other single target skills curbstomp it. even explosive runes, a full time aoe instead of the lame half-and-half RT, delivers almost as much single-target DPS as RT (and surpasses it if there's a 2nd target).

DOMOAKFrost
December 13th, 2014, 10:46 PM
3rd best at what? definitely not dps or mana-efficency - all of the wizards other single target skills curbstomp it. even explosive runes, a full time aoe instead of the lame half-and-half RT, delivers almost as much single-target DPS as RT (and surpasses it if there's a 2nd target).

1. We're not considering aoes here. RT is a single target spell. Whatever else it happens to hit is a bonus.

2. Sure, let's downgrade RT to 4th. I must have misremembered searing flame's mana cost. That doesn't matter though, Hunter has Strongbow Additive Arrow and Bowstring Shockwave on top of Arrow Alchemy.

On top of that, Hunter can sub Veiled Volley, Blood Money, Coiled Serpent Staff, Cloudshaker Staff, Staff Whip, all of which hits in the high 60ks with a c.fury build. What can wizard sub again?

3. Explosive Runes is 132 MP at level 10 with a 12-sec CD, aka 11 MP/s. There are few spells that lose to RT in terms of MP cost, and Explosive Runes is one of them.

Damage wise, Explosive runes is 5900+3300 over 12 seconds, vs RT's 16600+33400 over 64 seconds, basic division yields a higher DPM and DPS.

I don't know what you're trying to accomplish arguing trivialities.

Carecrow
December 13th, 2014, 11:02 PM
2. Sure, let's downgrade RT to 4th. I must have misremembered searing flame's mana cost.

Dayum! You got schooled, son!

DOMOAKFrost
December 13th, 2014, 11:30 PM
Dayum! You got schooled, son!

I haven't cared about spell mana since 2008.

Mitzruti
December 14th, 2014, 11:26 AM
*sigh*
you're trying to compare a spammable dps skill from a class that specializes in single-target damage to a long-cooldown burst skill from a class that specializes in AoE damage. furthermore, you've chosen to do it in the arena of sustained single target DPS - a category that heavily favours spammable skills and single-target focused classes.

who wins is a foregone conclusion, but using the comparison to show anything other than the game working as intended is dishonest.

the explosive runes example was to illustrate that RT has trouble outpacing an AoE skill. especially considering that AoE skills have relatively poor DPS, it helps illustrate that RT really isn't a good ST skill.

Dyyn
December 14th, 2014, 01:57 PM
*sigh*
you're trying to compare a spammable dps skill from a class that specializes in single-target damage to a long-cooldown burst skill from a class that specializes in AoE damage. furthermore, you've chosen to do it in the arena of sustained single target DPS - a category that heavily favours spammable skills and single-target focused classes.

who wins is a foregone conclusion, but using the comparison to show anything other than the game working as intended is dishonest.

the explosive runes example was to illustrate that RT has trouble outpacing an AoE skill. especially considering that AoE skills have relatively poor DPS, it helps illustrate that RT really isn't a good ST skill.

none of the caster skills are good for single-target

caster classes are good for...

idk ?_?

and that's coming from someone who almost exclusively plays caster classes.

DOMOAKFrost
December 14th, 2014, 02:29 PM
*sigh*
you're trying to compare a spammable dps skill from a class that specializes in single-target damage to a long-cooldown burst skill from a class that specializes in AoE damage. furthermore, you've chosen to do it in the arena of sustained single target DPS - a category that heavily favours spammable skills and single-target focused classes.

who wins is a foregone conclusion, but using the comparison to show anything other than the game working as intended is dishonest.

the explosive runes example was to illustrate that RT has trouble outpacing an AoE skill. especially considering that AoE skills have relatively poor DPS, it helps illustrate that RT really isn't a good ST skill.

In AoE, Wizard still loses to hunter, because it can sub Money rain, fan dance (because, spoiler, fan dance aoes are physical damage), and has Dark Deluge (not gonna count dart because it's crap like shrieking demons, but wait, it's still 3x more MP efficient than demons.).

Also, I don't know how casting one spell for 50k damage and less mana is "having trouble outpacing" another spell that needs to be cast 5 times for 1.6x the cost and 90% of the damage.

Mitzruti
December 14th, 2014, 03:35 PM
so now a single class has to compete with 3 classes at once? you're doing it again.

DOMOAKFrost
December 14th, 2014, 03:45 PM
so now a single class has to compete with 3 classes at once? you're doing it again.

Yes, let's just play all jobs without subs and without items.

Dyyn
December 14th, 2014, 04:25 PM
Mitzruti status:

[­ ] not rekt
[x] rekt

NotHereCantDelete
December 14th, 2014, 04:37 PM
There's no need for this to turn into a slandering match, Dyy I love you but so help me I'll smack a warning on your face if I need to.
-forever watching-
-except when I sleep-

Dyyn
December 14th, 2014, 04:44 PM
My status:

[ ] not told
[ ] told
[x] Told Man and the Sea

Mitzruti
December 14th, 2014, 10:25 PM
No. I was referring to the fact that despite giving hunter 2 subs, you gave the wizard you were comparing it to none.
which has been my prime irritation the whole time: setting things up so they heavily favour the class you want to win before the comparison can even be made. (caring level for if it's actually better? mere curiosity.)

so I do a bit of digging for numbers, to try and find out if it's all as bad as you seem to make it out to be.
...and what I can find seems to be a landslide in favour of wizard.

These numbers reflect average damage over a minute with job proficiency worked in.

Hunter/Merch/FanDance
29500 +400% Money Rain
24995 Fan Fandango
11400 +67% Fancy Fan Fandango
5249 Sandstorm Salsa
19715 Dark Deluge
4498 Dart Deluge
95367 +467%NAD

Wizard/Shaman/DiffDance
29500 Explosive Runes
29000 Toppling Tremor
15300 Thorns
20000 Acid Rain
10800 each Shaman AoE (x5)
16198 Rhumba/Foxtrot (x2)
180195

35143 Maximum Warning Warble (but how much do you really get to cast it?)
16500 Erunes 2nd Hit (doesn't hit the full aoe)
10176 Shrieking Demons (friggin' DoT, man.)
technically RT could go in here too, but, screw it.
61819

ofc, swaping a sub for fencer for either would be a damage gain but the hybrid nature makes the math messy.

However! given how certain you seem that hunter's better at aoe, there must be something rather large I'm missing.
the hunter numbers in particular bother me. I find it hard to think they're genuinely that bad.

DOMOAKFrost
December 14th, 2014, 11:02 PM
No. I was referring to the fact that despite giving hunter 2 subs, you gave the wizard you were comparing it to none.
which has been my prime irritation the whole time: setting things up so they heavily favour the class you want to win before the comparison can even be made. (caring level for if it's actually better? mere curiosity.)

so I do a bit of digging for numbers, to try and find out if it's all as bad as you seem to make it out to be.
...and what I can find seems to be a landslide in favour of wizard.

These numbers reflect average damage over a minute with job proficiency worked in.

Hunter/Merch/FanDance
29500 +400% Money Rain
24995 Fan Fandango
11400 +67% Fancy Fan Fandango
5249 Sandstorm Salsa
19715 Dark Deluge
4498 Dart Deluge
95367 +467%NAD

Wizard/Shaman/DiffDance
29500 Explosive Runes
29000 Toppling Tremor
15300 Thorns
20000 Acid Rain
10800 each Shaman AoE (x5)
16198 Rhumba/Foxtrot (x2)
180195

35143 Maximum Warning Warble (but how much do you really get to cast it?)
16500 Erunes 2nd Hit (doesn't hit the full aoe)
10176 Shrieking Demons (friggin' DoT, man.)
technically RT could go in here too, but, screw it.
61819

ofc, swaping a sub for fencer for either would be a damage gain but the hybrid nature makes the math messy.

However! given how certain you seem that hunter's better at aoe, there must be something rather large I'm missing.
the hunter numbers in particular bother me. I find it hard to think they're genuinely that bad.

1. Damage caps:

Magic damage cap is 6.25 matk / mdef. At 2.6k matk (The maximum I've reached, and probably leagues ahead of anything anyone else has reached considering I had 10 capped matk mods), that afford you damage cap on enemies up to 416 mdef. You, of course, will not have any aoe debuffs.

Your geared raid hunter has 3-4k atk with c.fury.

2. Cast time

Explosive runes casts at 3 seconds (+1 second for the wand animation, sylphs will do a spin. This is cancelable for movement but not recast), at 5 casts per minute, that already eats up 20 seconds of your cast time.

Tremor has 2.5 + 1, at 5 casts, that's 17.5 seconds, total, 37.5 seconds

Thorns is also 2.5 + 1, at 3 casts, that's 10.5 seconds, total, 48 seconds.

Acid rain scroll takes a whopping 5+1, that's a little less than 101 since 2 casts is 66 seconds, total, 59 seconds, out of 60.

So, guess who ran out of cast time already? You won't be doing shaman aoes or rhumba/foxtrot or fencer.

So that cuts you down to... 30 + 30 + 15 + 20 = a little over 95k.

Carecrow
December 15th, 2014, 01:30 AM
However! given how certain you seem that hunter's better at aoe, there must be something rather large I'm missing.
the hunter numbers in particular bother me. I find it hard to think they're genuinely that bad.

Wiz is probably better solo aoe.