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saborugu
September 20th, 2009, 06:24 AM
Can any one say the pros and cons of bouth builds
Who is bether in hunting Who in pvp
:confused:

Chislev
September 20th, 2009, 11:20 AM
i don't think they can be compared or do a Vs. Both are too different for that.

I can't say one os "better" then the other, they are just different, that's why i play both classes. One may do higher damage sometimes, the other may make you last longer in the field...

I don't know, maybe the only real fact is that atalantas (fully geared of course) are the most sexy looking class in the game, everything else is irrelevant :)

Eudoxia
September 20th, 2009, 12:09 PM
i've played a 10x atalanta before and a 9x archer, so i might be able to offer some advice! but i think Chrislev is right... ^^ to fully compare them is hard, like comparing oranges with grapes

archers DO have the wolfy, meaning you can automatically do less potting, less running, and less dodging in order to barrel hits at the monster for more damage. but when wolfy dies, we're fleeing the scene until we can re-summon it XD XD

atalantas definitely have more survivability. because they have shields and higher armor, so if you want a char that isn't as delicate but has relatively the same amount of dmg, choose an atalanta. the only thing is they don't have is as good of a aoe attack like Perfo for archers.

as for pvp, archer is probably the better pvper because they have 10 PS

but really, they have incredibly different skills =o the only thing similar is they are ranged attackers

gl ^_^ (PS CHRISLEV NOOOOOO... archers are the sexiest D:<)

saborugu
September 20th, 2009, 03:01 PM
Tnx you two
I cant decide coz i like the archers skills but they cant take any hits
on the other hand atas can but i dont know if they are any good dmg wise

I have played only mele class chars till now
a pike , knight and a mech
in a range i want some dmg and to be able to tank some :confused:

Nnoitra
September 20th, 2009, 03:10 PM
also note that ata gear is way cheaper then as gear

NickV D=
September 20th, 2009, 04:00 PM
for pvp archers r better but atas aint too far if they have low strength build.. vengence can drop ur hp pretty fast... also they have good defending skills (usefull if ur defending bc for example).. frost javelin and shield strike r good for slowing down/stunning attackers and win some time...

hunting its easier for archers cause of the doggy but atas can do good too.. they have good evasion and due to they always fight 1 handed they have good def + block... BUT u still need to run in circles in order to survive.. u might die a couple of times till u get used to it but once u get it u should not have any problem =]

saborugu
September 20th, 2009, 04:27 PM
All the guides i have seen of ata are so confusing
coz one person said str is the way to go the second pesron agi means dmg go low str
and the first one said high agi ata si a "ata wannabe archer " or someting of the sort :confused:
cant tell wich one is the "strong" in your yes

Chislev
September 20th, 2009, 06:10 PM
Well, here is something that wasnt said about PvP and atas/archers:

- Atas can do massive stun using shield strike on players.

- Atas can be a real headache to everyone using frost javelin

- For the above, they are excellent support characters specially when defending.

On the other hand, Archers.

- They have very nice damage dealing using PS 10, but usually need quite several shots to KO a melee oponent in same level range (and im talking about 10x vs 10x) usually giving the melee attacker the chance to get too close to you.

- Every melee class can 1 hit kill every archer (yes, even mechs can do it), while a well done ata can usually stand two hits, meaning she can even pot or try a stun attack to save her noble parts, or hit that athanasia scroll just in time to live another 15 seconds.

- None of them can withstand a pike sneak attack, so that is out of discussion lol.

As for the pure damage thing, no matter if you ruin an ata going full agi, they will never equal archers damage nor attack rating (this last because all top level bows have AR bonuses while javelins doesn't) So if you only care about damage go for the archer.

SelenisAaargh
September 20th, 2009, 09:18 PM
And once you died couple times after 8x at 1x exp youll decide to go with the tougher Ata ^^

saborugu
September 21st, 2009, 04:52 AM
And once you died couple times after 8x at 1x exp youll decide to go with the tougher Ata ^^

my point is the same i had a knight that i lved to 60 when awell was opened with the 2x exp and when they did the 1x i had a wave of death like in one day 20 % and i was - 17 % from what i started with i got mad and deleted it made me a mech (power)
Now i want a range that is going to be able not to die easy :(

SelenisAaargh
September 21st, 2009, 06:36 AM
my point is the same i had a knight that i lved to 60 when awell was opened with the 2x exp and when they did the 1x i had a wave of death like in one day 20 % and i was - 17 % from what i started with i got mad and deleted it made me a mech (power)
Now i want a range that is going to be able not to die easy :(

then tough ata build is the right decision for you.
you can even leave health at base untill 8x if you keep hp mixing your stuff after you reach 6x.
with your shieldstrike your always able to get out of bad situations like unexpected styx + minions or rasha + minions spawn.

plus ata area attack storm javs works so that you dont even have to be in harms way.

at 77 i can gather whole HS in s1 behind me and spam storm making little steps so melees waste time bashing on air.
this way im hardly in danger and waste relative few pots (well you do burn mana ^^)
same technique you can use after 65 in dun3 or after 70 in DS without any danger and with reasonably fast kills.

it takes some skill to get ata to tier 4 but once youre there you have fun :)

Chislev
September 21st, 2009, 12:09 PM
Yep, what Selenis say is true.

I would only do some tiny add: Shield strike becomes useless after ice maps, specially after Land of chaos where most monsters (if n ot all) care immune to ss. Note that most bosses are immune to it and also all elemental creatures (figon, moody, etc).

All in all, that is the very first skill an ata receive and the very best of all for most part of their life :D

I usually keep my atas on base health until somewhere between level 70 and 74, then start to boost it until i feel comfortable. But i play a lot of melee with my atas (fooling around with a two hanced sword is my trademark lol, and i also like to fight bosses using a scythe, try that on an archer haha, o h yes, Bigger Spear is a scythe skill, so you can have some fun with it)

Just focus on using all armors, all shields and all javelins and you will be just fine, once you get the level 51 armor you will start to look as a real atalanta too. As for spirit, don't raise it for elven javelin (level 16), just skip that one or it will delay a lot your advancement in armors. Around level 25 you will have some spare stat points that can be assigned to spirit. Do not aim beyond using a Devine, it is useless.

SelenisAaargh
September 21st, 2009, 12:30 PM
Yep, what Selenis say is true.
fooling around with a two hanced sword is my trademark lol, and i also like to fight bosses using a scythe
I tried to respecc a fatal sword to ats and it jumped 5 times to KS, 7 times to NS before i gave up :(
ATs swords became so rare :(:(:(
but at least my ats butterfly is finally +6 now after 3 deagings (1 at +6 and 2 at +5) and 2.5kk investment in a toy so it matches my armor ^^;

Chislev
September 21st, 2009, 01:12 PM
Hahaha so true and so sad!! Specially since (after some bloody patch) the only remaining two handed swords able to be atalanta spec is the long sword T_T so i just use NS ones. Meh! I've got several single hand ata swords, the classic slayer (NPCed already) some highlanders (i believ i still have 2 of them) and one avenger sitting in a mule.

Butterfly is gorgeous for atas! My ata in awell will be able to use one when she level up (she's short by 1 in one stat for it). I always liked very much to use the dragon wing, the hyper and can't wait to use an extreme, that one will definitely fit my style :D

For now,KC in Awell wears a gigantinc sword, and SavageRose in Midranda a bastard sword, looks really sexy on the pink haired ata.

SelenisAaargh
September 21st, 2009, 03:58 PM
oh noooooooo they removed 2 handed ats swords???


:(:(:(:(

Chislev
September 21st, 2009, 04:04 PM
lol, it happened years ago, stiull during yedang times.... They always hated sexy looking atas :eek:

CreamPuffs
September 21st, 2009, 06:12 PM
Hallo! I think it depends on your style.

I tried a 77 str low str archer, and while she did more damage than my ata, she was...very hard to play X_X! I died a bit, and also running around potting like a monkey when mobbing and soloing was no fun... some ppl can survive really well with an archer, but obviously I wasn't one of them ^^

So I switched to ata. And even if my archer does more damage, I can kill more monsters faster on my ata because I don't have to worry about potting and dying. So actually she is much more capable of soloing/mobbing because i can round up bigger mobs faster ^^


But it depends on how u play, because some ppl can handle them better and don't have problems soloing and staying alive :p

Mira
September 21st, 2009, 06:26 PM
I guess it takes more skill to play a archer:)

Eudoxia
September 21st, 2009, 06:55 PM
I guess it takes more skill to play a archer:)


ka ching~! :D

Chislev
September 21st, 2009, 08:48 PM
I guess it takes more skill to play a archer:)

Nah, when i play the agi build archer i just put myself in the "frightened like a chicken" mode, and that's all :D just do the run and hit tactics

I wont deny it, you need to be a special kind of player (skillfull but not necessarily smarter) to really enjoy the low str builds, i prefer the str + hp builds and play more relaxed, not spending gold in potions and tanking like a sherman :D oh yeah, and drinking a daikiri while hunting my favorite spots :cool:

CreamPuffs
September 22nd, 2009, 01:43 AM
The skills to play an archer are pretty straightforward, and if you're not dumber than the average player, you'll learn them well enough with the hours and hours of experience you need lvling up ^^. The main thing is being watchful and paying attention when you play an archer. Most of my deaths didn't come from things like shooting off an avalanche in the wrong spot or time (things like this you learn quickly)-- they came from zoning out and not paying attention to the health bar, which...still happens on my ata (:o) but just not as often because usually when I snap out of my daydream she still has some hp left keke.

Mira
September 22nd, 2009, 02:45 AM
Nah, when i play the agi build archer i just put myself in the "frightened like a chicken" mode, and that's all :D just do the run and hit tactics

I wont deny it, you need to be a special kind of player (skillfull but not necessarily smarter) to really enjoy the low str builds, i prefer the str + hp builds and play more relaxed, not spending gold in potions and tanking like a sherman :D oh yeah, and drinking a daikiri while hunting my favorite spots :cool:

I play both 1. 9x shermon tank and 5x glass cannon:D

Erbse
September 22nd, 2009, 06:24 AM
If you plan ever getting to high 9x and/or 10x+ do yourself a favor and roll an ata, else stick with the archer.

lazrath
September 22nd, 2009, 08:31 AM
Nah, when i play the agi build archer i just put myself in the "frightened like a chicken" mode, and that's all :D just do the run and hit tactics

if you have a good amount of health on archer you don't have to be like that, like 50-70 health(ring or scale armor is good enough, age it up or hp gem, don't really need higher armors til you get to 80)

especially once you get a good level of perf

like 65-70 archer with a good bow can own dun3, like seriously with perf

dark sanc is easy too at that point

lazrath
September 22nd, 2009, 08:39 AM
also, a good archer doesn't 'hit and run'

it is all lure, kill, lure, kill, lure, kill, lure, kill

saborugu
September 22nd, 2009, 01:10 PM
Ok so archer is not run run kill but isnt it try that they cant stand 2 hits from a mob theyer lv lets say a d3 mob :confused:
I would sacrifice dmg to def and survivability

Mira
September 22nd, 2009, 03:35 PM
Ok so archer is not run run kill but isnt it try that they cant stand 2 hits from a mob theyer lv lets say a d3 mob :confused:
I would sacrifice dmg to def and survivability

shoot 2 or 3x then move and repeat

lazrath
September 22nd, 2009, 05:50 PM
I would sacrifice dmg to def and survivability

your survivability is determined by your health

hp is your hit buffer, you get a good amount of hp for each health point

you get very little abs\defense for each str point, so you have to waste a lot of points adding str to make up for low hp, in the end it isn't worth it, health is a much better investment



and sure lower levels you will have to hit and run until you get wolfy at 60, just fight in maps where you kill faster, much better\safer, it is what most classes do anyway

but even then health is still important

minkwarrior
October 3rd, 2009, 09:50 AM
In an Ata VS Archer fight I'd say the Ata's the strongest.

Frost Javelin and Vengence is all they need.

At least that's what I think. Right Chislev?:p

Chislev
October 3rd, 2009, 11:13 AM
Almost, Mink.

I find Frost javelin comletely useless after the ice maps. It seem that none of those monsters suffer from the added damage from it and they doesn't slow down neither.

I would rather say, tov 10, hov 10 and vengeance 10 and you are set ^_^ After that, just add to the skills you like, be it for looking, or because of cool animations or whatever.

minkwarrior
October 3rd, 2009, 01:01 PM
Well it's the Ata that I was referring to based on PVP performances.

ulrikaxD
October 17th, 2009, 07:40 PM
the true is... if u are ata or archer, u will be a target in bc XD...
for hunt... with both can die (all chars can die hunting... the guy that tell: "i never die" is a lier), with both u will run. so for hunt, just go with a tanker :P
and xping... i dont know if archer do xp fast.

Baaly
October 17th, 2009, 07:52 PM
yes we do with perforation skill :p

SelenisAaargh
October 17th, 2009, 10:42 PM
the true is... if u are ata or archer, u will be a target in bc XD...
for hunt... with both can die (all chars can die hunting... the guy that tell: "i never die" is a lier), with both u will run. so for hunt, just go with a tanker :P
and xping... i dont know if archer do xp fast.

well TBH i do not fear any char in pvp much.
OK my last test was at 75 but at that lvl i fought 3 75 pikes and neither was able to kill me.
a 75 knight didnt even bring me near death, it was the other way around.

and from report from a lvl 90 ata i gather that its really easy to kill a 95 knight if you skill right...

atas are no pushovers in pvp, all pikes just like to think so and brag with their e-*****.

im not impressed and let em come


for your other comment:

clearly you have no idea about how either ata or archer hunt.
i do not run from any mob, i always hunt in highest possible area (i2 now) and im hardly ever in danger of dying.

only cos i dont have to take every hit like a block of concrete doesnt mean i hunt bad.

in party i always see my tanks drop eventually, may they be knights or pikes

yes i die from time to time but the ratio to a melle char id say for every 10 deaths they have i have 1

ulrikaxD
October 18th, 2009, 07:58 AM
clearly you have no idea about how either ata or archer hunt.
i do not run from any mob, i always hunt in highest possible area (i2 now) and im hardly ever in danger of dying.

only cos i dont have to take every hit like a block of concrete doesnt mean i hunt bad.

in party i always see my tanks drop eventually, may they be knights or pikes

yes i die from time to time but the ratio to a melle char id say for every 10 deaths they have i have 1

well... if ata and archer dont need run when u hunt... omg!!!! i feel to much noob coz i cant tank 2 dark guard in loc!!! trust me... when u go loc, u will run like a bich (sry for the expresion).
and about melle char... i just can tell: for understand a melle char u should play a melle, for understand a ranger u should play a ranger. the true is, that ranger tell: come on! tank, u are melle... why are u dieing??
and the melle tell: stop run, and come here and tank (if u can)
thats why... 10 vs 1... mmm... i am not sure thats your stadistic is absoluty.

SelenisAaargh
October 19th, 2009, 06:36 AM
Honestly I just feel silly arguing with a 13 year old uneducated brat (or someone with similar diction) but couple last points for you.

1. you can stick your insults and fake apologies where no sun shines little boy.

2. The point is I dont need tanks! They mostly disturb my lines in training and when I hunt all I need is making 2 steps back and continue fighting.
I can tank just as good as a knight (same hp formulas, same armor) but I dont need to, thats the whole point.
I'm doing it if its needed and don't complain if the party is worth it.

3. The question in this thread was about atalanta or archer because someone was fed up with dying.

4. Now go and suck on your thumb.

NickV D=
October 19th, 2009, 08:50 AM
a lvl 90 ata i gather that its really easy to kill a 95 knight if you skill right...

we all know knights r the worst class in the game... lets leave them out of this discussion ok ? ;_;

ulrikaxD
October 19th, 2009, 03:32 PM
3. The question in this thread was about atalanta or archer because someone was fed up with dying.

my answer still is the same... both the probably for die is high in map 90+ if u go alone.
btw... dont joke with me when u tell that can tank like a ks... u answer me... so i think u was telling that can tank in loc like a ks xd... i still didnt find holy body in ata u.u.

and, yes, a ata 90 can kill ks 95... coz mostly of ks up the holy body, and not the drastic. simple...

Mira
October 19th, 2009, 03:58 PM
Gee ive only dien once in ice and i go alone alot

Viol3ts
December 10th, 2009, 04:56 AM
we all know knights r the worst class in the game... lets leave them out of this discussion ok ? ;_;

lol Nick. But aren't Knight looks cool with his cape and everything??