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LunaP
December 17th, 2015, 05:35 PM
This thread will be for the class balancing discussion of the MoonFlame Envoy class.

NightSora
December 17th, 2015, 05:44 PM
dmg/mana shield x2 cast at once

Mfe do 80k-120k in pvp avrange hp is 30k in pvp
mana shield = mp = hp (Remove from gvg) makes them have over 40k hp more then knights
mfe in pve atm 50k-250k should do more dmg in 1 hit burst/ 1 skill longer cd
mfe skills can cast x2-3 times in one cast if spamed enough nerf pls~

-lower pvp dmg upgrade pve-

AlehLH
December 17th, 2015, 05:57 PM
The class is fine for PvP.
It has problems for PvE because the DPS is too low. Lightining, Solar Storm and Ring of Fire would need a boost in damage in order to help alleviate the situation.

Ixil006
December 17th, 2015, 06:27 PM
hmmm Nerf YumeChan so I can beat her in pvp XD yes?

AlehLH
December 17th, 2015, 06:33 PM
dmg/mana shield x2 cast at once

Mfe do 80k-120k in pvp avrange hp is 30k in pvp
mana shield = mp = hp (Remove from gvg) makes them have over 40k hp more then knights
mfe in pve atm 50k-250k should do more dmg in 1 hit burst/ 1 skill longer cd
mfe skills can cast x2-3 times in one cast if spamed enough nerf pls~

-lower pvp dmg upgrade pve-

MFE don't crit nearly as much as you claim.
Mana Shield is part of what makes this class what it is, by your logic we should also remove Knights' stuns or skills like Knight Invitation, making every class the same, which makes no sense. This skill also goes away when you get stunned, which happens all the time.
Every class can double cast an attack, gunners can, knights can (so much that a dagger + WoF bugs often because it makes you too fast and you keep attacking even when your target is already dead).

xTouya
December 17th, 2015, 06:57 PM
As a Level 80 SG with nearly around 25-27k HP and nearly 40k hp with Zodiac invoked, while also Using Magic crit -20%. I can still get 1 shot by you Aleh. While it takes me awhile for me to kill you. Sometimes I die as soon as I see you. Before I even have the chance to Onslaught, you pretty much root me into place and just 1 shot me instantly with a fireball like spell.

AlehLH
December 17th, 2015, 07:01 PM
As a Level 80 SG with nearly around 25-27k HP and nearly 40k hp with Zodiac invoked, while also Using Magic crit -20%. I can still get 1 shot by you Aleh. While it takes me awhile for me to kill you. Sometimes I die as soon as I see you. Before I even have the chance to Onslaught, you pretty much root me into place and just 1 shot me instantly with a fireball like spell.

Everyone can get oneshot though lol, and I assume you're Piitaa?

DarthWalker
December 17th, 2015, 07:26 PM
The class is fine for PvP.
It has problems for PvE because the DPS is too low. Lightining, Solar Storm and Ring of Fire would need a boost in damage in order to help alleviate the situation.

Isn't lightning oriented for galaxy sages anyway? Since it's an air-based attack, and from my knowledge, MFE's are moreover fire-type and water-type damage.

AlehLH
December 17th, 2015, 08:04 PM
Isn't lightning oriented for galaxy sages anyway? Since it's an air-based attack, and from my knowledge, MFE's are moreover fire-type and water-type damage.

Lightning can only be upgraded by MFE, GS can upgrade only Tataleah's Meteor which is a Earth element spell but they work in the same way

Briynhildr
December 18th, 2015, 08:12 AM
Raise PvE damages of Moonflame Envoys. It hurted to see Aleh's damages on Ossus, really.

NightSora
December 18th, 2015, 08:41 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6tcW0s7Bug

7:28-mfe crts 84k (without anything procing) shooting star attack - over 100k if in zodiac or useing zodiac 250% dmg skill or if his pets proced
(through out the video) insta cast skills doing 15~26k
22:30/7:20 i see mama shield tanking ~around 40k due to mana = mp(nerf a bit pls or completely remove this skill)
31:35-tanks 1/2 a guild *use's Invincibility skill* wich allows him to 100% heal mana then 100% pot for hp also right after then your at it and rdy to tank a guild again~
12:38-mfe hits in tower due to x2 cast on skills bugg
24:06-one shoot a solar guardian (33k hp is what adan has while using 1hander and shield) with a insta cast again so crt over 30k lets just say *zone chat admited by aleh*

Nerf in PvP a bit reduce dmg by 80% or something for al lclasses this issue is resolved
Upgrade dmg in PvE extend cool-downs would work
Or Insted of nerfing dmg for all classes just Disable all pets aside from zodiac pets during pvp *also resolves the issue*

Briynhildr
December 18th, 2015, 08:45 AM
It was a 84k against a lv56 gunner, are you kidding me ... ?

YKiddie
December 18th, 2015, 09:01 AM
MFE don't crit nearly as much as you claim.
Mana Shield is part of what makes this class what it is, by your logic we should also remove Knights' stuns or skills like Knight Invitation, making every class the same, which makes no sense. This skill also goes away when you get stunned, which happens all the time.
Every class can double cast an attack, gunners can, knights can (so much that a dagger + WoF bugs often because it makes you too fast and you keep attacking even when your target is already dead).


Everyone can get oneshot though lol, and I assume you're Piitaa?

Not sure about this.
My Gunner was hit more than 100k damage by some lvl80 MFE's shooting star.

Even though my char is still below 70, but 100k damage is too OP.


- And it's fun to read someone want to nerf other damage dealer classes while he says this class is perfectly fine for pvp and need more improvement for pve -

AlehLH
December 18th, 2015, 09:02 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6tcW0s7Bug

7:28-mfe crts 84k (without anything procing) shooting star attack - over 100k if in zodiac or useing zodiac 250% dmg skill or if his pets proced
(through out the video) insta cast skills doing 15~26k
22:30/7:20 i see mama shield tanking ~around 40k due to mana = mp(nerf a bit pls or completely remove this skill)
31:35-tanks 1/2 a guild *use's Invincibility skill* wich allows him to 100% heal mana then 100% pot for hp also right after then your at it and rdy to tank a guild again~
12:38-mfe hits in tower due to x2 cast on skills bugg
24:06-one shoot a solar guardian (33k hp is what adan has while using 1hander and shield) with a insta cast again so crt over 30k lets just say *zone chat admited by aleh*

Nerf in PvP a bit reduce dmg by 80% or something for al lclasses this issue is resolved
Upgrade dmg in PvE extend cool-downs would work
Or Insted of nerfing dmg for all classes just Disable all pets aside from zodiac pets during pvp *also resolves the issue*

7:28 Shooting star, my strongest skill which can't be spammed, crits 84k on a lv 56 gunner and you think that's op? LOLwut
At 22:30 I tanked the insignificant damage of that same lv 56 gunner, obviously, then my hp went to ZERO% after one hit from lv 80 SG since onslaught stuns me and removes my mana shield, I survived thanks to immortality zodiac then ran away cause I was getting attacks from mages below the stairs. I don't see what your point is. Removing an entire skill from a class is just off.
At 31:35 you can see people attacking other people besides me, and you can't see any healing pot debuff when I get targeted, which means I didn't use anything to heal, and in fact I died shortly after.
12:38 people can hit on the tower after the target is dead and by a bug their name remains red, allowing to attack when they respawn, x2 cast has nothing to do with it
24:06 yes, I can oneshot people like everyone else! Wooho ~


Nerf in PvP a bit reduce dmg by 80% or something for all classes this issue is resolved


Now, I agree with THIS part.

AlehLH
December 18th, 2015, 09:04 AM
Not sure about this.
My Gunner was hit more than 100k damage by some lvl80 MFE's shooting star.

Even though my char is still below 70, but 100k damage is too OP.


- And it's fun to read someone want to nerf other damage dealer classes while he says this class is perfectly fine for pvp and need more improvement for pve -

1) Yes, critting that much on someone below lv 70 is easy as it's meant to be, especially since Gunners have super low magic defense cause they can't wear shields. Sorry about that.
2) Yes, the class is fine for PvP and needs more dps for PvE. Even Briynhildr said my dps on bosses is pathetic.

Edit: ops, meant to edit my old post, can a mod fix this for me? o3o

Briynhildr
December 18th, 2015, 09:06 AM
yes, I can oneshot people like everyone else! Wooho ~

What you should be worried about Sora is the fact I could already one shot you when my phantom was only lv65, Aleh being the strongest MFE, it's not that surprizing he's bursting damages.

Maybe the problem comes from your own character ... ?

AlehLH
December 18th, 2015, 09:09 AM
What you should be worried about Sora is the fact I could already one shot you when my phantom was only lv65, Aleh being the strongest MFE, it's not that surprizing he's bursting damages.

Maybe the problem comes from your own character ... ?

Especially considering how I never managed to oneshot 4CE, a lv 80 SG just like Sora.

NightSora
December 18th, 2015, 09:18 AM
What you should be worried about Sora is the fact I could already one shot you when my phantom was only lv65, Aleh being the strongest MFE, it's not that surprizing he's bursting damages.

Maybe the problem comes from your own character ... ?

no o.o iv been crt over 100k by aleh a couple times too dat srsly is broken in gvg i dont care if you say you never been its the truth you dont pvp ace a lot to even know that .-. im just saying its broken af should get nerf in pvp upgraded in pve its my opinion stop the complain you srsly are the only mfe rejecting the idea of you guys crt to much sad truth you do get over it .-. its deserves a nerf is what i think O: i got over 6 people who can admit u crt them over 100k highest someone said was 109k so maybe not 120k but close enought .-.
i admit the stuff wrong in my class admit if to your broken in PvP bad in PvE and needs a redone completly

i say reduce all items spellpower by 1/2 meele attack by 1/2 range attack by 1/2 and your done

AlehLH
December 18th, 2015, 09:24 AM
no o.o iv been crt over 100k by aleh a couple times too dat srsly is broken in gvg i dont care if you say you never been its the truth you dont pvp ace a lot to even know that .-. im just saying its broken af should get nerf in pvp upgraded in pve its my opinion stop the complain you srsly are the only mfe rejecting the idea of you guys crt to much sad truth you do get over it .-. its deserves a nerf is what i think O: i got over 6 people who can admit u crt them over 100k highest someone said was 109k so maybe not 120k but close enought .-.
i admit the stuff wrong in my class admit if to your broken in PvP bad in PvE and needs a redone completly

i say reduce all items spellpower by 1/2 meele attack by 1/2 range attack by 1/2 and your done

Excuse me but what do you know about me and 4CE PvP'ing together?
And the only people who said I crit them so much so far are you and that lv 56 gunner. Which is impossible, if I crit 84k on a low level gunner how can I crit 100k on you? At least be coherent.
I'm not saying I want everyone to be nerfed except me, but you seem to want to nerf the wrong things here.
As I said, nerfing the PvP damage of ALL classes in GvG through a debuff is a perfectly fine choice and I support that.

Briynhildr
December 18th, 2015, 09:26 AM
Excuse me but what do you know about me and 4CE PvP'ing together?
And the only people who said I crit them so much so far are you and that lv 56 gunner. Which is impossible, if I crit 84k on a low level gunner how can I crit 100k on you? At least be coherent.
I'm not saying I want everyone to be nerfed except me, but you seem to want to nerf the wrong things here.
As I said, nerfing the PvP damage of ALL classes in GvG through a debuff is a perfectly fine choice and I support that.

OR raise all defense by x10 in pvp.

EDIT : maybe x5 actually, x10 would be too much. LOL

YumeLH
December 18th, 2015, 09:36 AM
I've been an MFE since BF LH and I think it has its advantages and disadvantages that balances it out.

In GVG, I see no need for MFE's to be nerfed. As gvg's pretty much whoever hits first (with a crit or a stun) wins.
In PVP:
MFE with the mana shield, GS has no chance but without the mana shield, GS has the advantage.
MFE is obviously disadvantaged against gunners due to range and no disabling capability. (Ex: I can only win against SanD if my moonflame crits high enough)
MFE vs SG is equal in my opinion. Shooting Star vs Onslaught.

In PvE, and for example MFE vs Ossus, I have a problem with that.
I can pretty much tank 3 dragons but I cannot damage any of them.
While MFE puts out huge amounts of damage, we're restricted by a CAPPED casting time and cooldowns. No matter how high my cast speed is shooting star is capped at 2s and fireball at 0.4s IIRC and they have cooldown that prevent them to be spammed *. The only alternative is using continuous skills like lightning & AoE which have absurd per-second rates.

*And then there's the "glitch". Due to latency or wtv reason, if you spam Fireball/Lightning/Solar Storm/Arctic blast, the skills can be multicasted (ignoring cooldown & casting time) occasionally. And this is probably the only reason why I've been able to kill in PVE at an acceptable rate. This bugs certain pet combinations tho which reduces damage output.

AlehLH
December 18th, 2015, 09:39 AM
Stuff

I agree with everything o/
Oh, except I find Gunners easier to kill than Knights

YumeLH
December 18th, 2015, 09:44 AM
Yes of course since they have lower HP and less defense lol.

AlehLH
December 18th, 2015, 09:47 AM
Well yeah but since you said we're disadvantaged against Gunners and equal against SG... lol

YumeLH
December 18th, 2015, 09:58 AM
Only just because MFE have shorter range than gunners. I'm usually dead by the time it takes me to get in range, and screwed if moonflame is on CD coz pfft fireball & shooting star casting speed is depressing coz of GvG lag. On the other hand, if SG's are still far away, I can just medusa's gaze and then hit a shooting star.

AlehLH
December 18th, 2015, 10:02 AM
Medusa's Gaze only really works if you use it when their Onslaught is in cooldown though, since it ignores it and still lets them attack when immobilized lol
And at lv 78 they kidnap you so it's even harder to stay away from them~

YumeLH
December 18th, 2015, 10:11 AM
It always boils down to whoever hits first ofc. What ever happens after that first hit is entirely based on luck (luck that your skills/items are available for use at the right time lol)
But you see the point of having skills to counter the other. And thats why I think MFE and SG are equal in a GVG setting (well SG have a slightly higher advantage if Shooting Star fails lol).

AlehLH
December 18th, 2015, 10:18 AM
Yeah in fact I don't think there are many balance issues in PvP right now. The only good thing would be nerfing everyone's damage through a debuff, to try and get rid of the oneshot factor and make it more fun.
There are, as said, problems in PvE though.

4Cce
December 18th, 2015, 12:42 PM
I've been 1 shooted once or twice by Aleh and it was only 40k not 100k LOL u guys drunk

Shiono
December 18th, 2015, 12:44 PM
Yeah in fact I don't think there are many balance issues in PvP right now. The only good thing would be nerfing everyone's damage through a debuff, to try and get rid of the oneshot factor and make it more fun.
There are, as said, problems in PvE though.

My damages are low enough, pls no </3

Well uhm I only have one thing to say about MFE.. which actually involves GS too.
MFE get to upgrade Elemental Aegis, they get Immunity to spells and a Mana Shield.. while GS don't even get a Traverse upgrade..

I think GS should be the ones upgrading the Elemental Aegis, not MFE.

Priest branch:
Sun Commissioner - the 'supportive' one - They get to upgrade Aegis, Cleansing Breath, Midnight Haze and they get Underworld Blessing.
Dawn Prophet - the one with 'most damage' - They can't upgrade any of those ^ but they get Physical Barrier.

Okay, it's fair.

Wizard branch:
Moon Flame Envoy - the one with 'most damage' - They get to upgrade Elemental Aegis, Traverse and they get Demeters Absolute Aegis & a Mana shield.
Galaxy Sage - the 'supportive' one - They can't upgrade any of those ^ and get no shield at all.

I mean, giving that SC is the one that get's to upgrade the Aegis, I think GS should be the one upgrading the Elemental Aegis.
MFE is good enough with Demeters and the Mana Shield (at higher levels) imo.

Ixil006
December 18th, 2015, 12:51 PM
My damages are low enough, pls no </3

Well uhm I only have one thing to say about MFE.. which actually involves GS too.
MFE get to upgrade Elemental Aegis, they get Immunity to spells and a Mana Shield.. while GS don't even get a Traverse upgrade..

I think GS should be the ones upgrading the Elemental Aegis, not MFE.

Priest branch:
Sun Commissioner - the 'supportive' one - They get to upgrade Aegis, Cleansing Breath, Midnight Haze and they get Underworld Blessing.
Dawn Prophet - the one with 'most damage' - They can't upgrade any of those ^ but they get Physical Barrier.

Okay, it's fair.

Wizard branch:
Moon Flame Envoy - the one with 'most damage' - They get to upgrade Elemental Aegis, Traverse and they get Demeters Absolute Aegis & a Mana shield.
Galaxy Sage - the 'supportive' one - They can't upgrade any of those ^ and get no shield at all.

I mean, giving that SC is the one that get's to upgrade the Aegis, I think GS should be the one upgrading the Elemental Aegis.
MFE is good enough with Demeters and the Mana Shield (at higher levels) imo.

hmm I sometimes ask Yume use Aegis on me at high levels magic hurts me ._. lol idk about traverse upgrade both classes should upgrade traverse =\ don't see why GS didn't get it doesn't affect battle

Shiono
December 18th, 2015, 12:55 PM
hmm I sometimes ask Yume use Aegis on me at high levels magic hurts me ._. lol idk about traverse upgrade both classes should upgrade traverse =\ don't see why GS didn't get it doesn't affect battle

GS's traverse is Lv2 - 25 meters
MFE's traverse is Lv5 - 40 meters

AlehLH
December 18th, 2015, 01:14 PM
As I said in the GS thread, MFE is actually more similar to SC, and it makes sense to me to be able to upgrade Elemental Aegis.

Cleftobismal
December 19th, 2015, 02:50 AM
I am a SC and last time I played in GvG when Hades came out. I two shotted Sora. Hi. [For the record, I'm not saying let SC one shotting like everyone else. juuuust saying we are cutting it too close for a healer to be two shotting in pvp)


Problem is GvG being unbalanced. Touching the classes on an individual bases for the sake of PvP will just screw things up especially considering how the game is heavily stat reliant since the percentage ratios can sometimes suck and the base damages are utterly garbage.

MinosTears
December 21st, 2015, 10:06 PM
Can I suggest that someone just make a "PvP Discussion" or is there one already? In terms of MFEs in PvP, I'd say its balanced. Like Yume said earlier, it's honestly just a matter of who lagged out first and who got the first shot. MFEs win when they can get Shooting Star to crit, same as SGs will win if they can get onslaught off first. I also agree with whoever said to just nerf gvg damage. That would actually be more fun imo.

Akameh
December 24th, 2015, 10:01 AM
o waw , Aleh vs Everyone going on o3o.... I really find it funny your crying Sora-chan ;I , imo MFE is like the most balanced class in this game -o -
GS basicly has no cast time , like all they ever do is spamm clicking ;I so no point in removing Mana Shield
CM's Suppressive shot is enough to slay a MFE ;o , as for SG it's about whoever hit first.
Sora you're saying 100k OP , what about Menthos's 200k crit? ;o (Op OP Menthos <3) , your arguing is based on personal thoughts imo xD,
I was never one hitted by Aleh so ya the problem ish in you and on's that lv56 gunner xD...

Cleftobismal
December 24th, 2015, 08:39 PM
Problem is this game doesn't separate PvP from PvE. You do the same damage as you do outside of the grounds. Rather than nerfing the classes based on PvP (Which I think should be kept out of these threads). We should be aiming for a PvP thread to ask for buffs regarding HP, Defenses, and Element Resistance. As well as restrictions to certain invincibility buffs outside of the classes. To be honest, I only see MFE killing in PvP when they "spam skills". Which I highly doubt was an intentional mechanic but JP doesn't seem to care about it. Even though we love being able to bypass the Global Cooldown. If we wan't to eliminate most of the soloing and rely on teammates. That's one way to do it. Despite this, I find MFE having a power struggle in PvE. It mostly has to do with the fact the scaling of all the skills in the game sucks, so when one is limited to just casting it doesn't work so well.

AlehLH
December 24th, 2015, 09:12 PM
To be honest, I only see MFE killing in PvP when they "spam skills". Which I highly doubt was an intentional mechanic but JP doesn't seem to care about it. Even though we love being able to bypass the Global Cooldown.
Nah that never works in PvP, I mainly spam (or double cast, or what you want to call it) skills in PvE and even that doesn't help to bring me on par with the dps other classes do.

Cleftobismal
December 25th, 2015, 04:30 AM
Snip.


Hi, I meant PvE. Typo.

Syndruh
December 29th, 2015, 08:09 AM
Wizard branch:
Moon Flame Envoy - the one with 'most damage' - They get to upgrade Elemental Aegis, Traverse and they get Demeters Absolute Aegis & a Mana shield.
Galaxy Sage - the 'supportive' one - They can't upgrade any of those ^ and get no shield at all.

I mean, giving that SC is the one that get's to upgrade the Aegis, I think GS should be the one upgrading the Elemental Aegis.
MFE is good enough with Demeters and the Mana Shield (at higher levels) imo.

But then again , GS's skills have no cast speed cap like MFE , sure go ahead give them our aegis and traverse that means , they get cast speed cast , and remove it for MFE , how is that gonna feel? Basicly just clicking FireBall , Shooting star (especially Aleh) , will be kinda ~~~~ up xD

Shiono
December 29th, 2015, 10:57 AM
But then again , GS's skills have no cast speed cap like MFE , sure go ahead give them our aegis and traverse that means , they get cast speed cast , and remove it for MFE , how is that gonna feel? Basicly just clicking FireBall , Shooting star (especially Aleh) , will be kinda ~~~~ up xD

First of all, who talked about removing any shield? I surely didn't, not the Elemental Aegis or the Mana shield or Demeters Absolute Aegis.
Both classes have the Elemental Aegis, I'm just saying I think Galaxy Sages should be able to upgrade it.

Ixil006
December 30th, 2015, 04:34 PM
But then again , GS's skills have no cast speed cap like MFE , sure go ahead give them our aegis and traverse that means , they get cast speed cast , and remove it for MFE , how is that gonna feel? Basically just clicking Fireball , Shooting star (especially Aleh) , will be kinda ~~~~ up xD

No one said remove anything lol..

This for PVP only

I can assure you that MAX level Galaxy Sage vs MFE with equal equips and stats .... GS can never stand a chance beating MFE in pvp ... already have been tested. To put it simply, a high level MFE has magic defense that is far superior to any class or passive pet in the game... so only lower level MFE and GS can fight somewhat at equal terms... MFE gets a very useful upgrades at 78, while GS gets nothing useful to even consider using ....
and as far as your terms in cast speed.... at 100% cast speed an mfe can dish high damage by casting it 0.9 to 1.2 sec fire ball and shooting star which gives you plenty of time to kill someone with no defense in first place, while the one with speed weaker damage can hit all they want will do 0 damage. Why? Due to elemental aegis and HP and MP converter.. if worse come to worse there is 12 second immune magic skill
Also don't forget the instant cast 200%
Lightning which is ALSO instant cast just like meteor for GS
do you see were I am going with this how many attacks he she has....
any debuff GS uses on MFE well MFE counters with Cleansing Spirit ... DONE...

Cleftobismal
December 30th, 2015, 09:25 PM
To be frank, I think PvP changes need to be placed on hold. It's currently the way PvP works not mostly the classes. Once PvP actually makes sense, then we should discuss about changes on an individual base. To be honest, I find it odd that MFE can cleanse more than a healer ever could. Bright side is, you can troll us SC's with it on our already long casting heals. We can't remove it.